Your Take: Country Stereotypes

I think its stupid to have the stereotype idea that country pop is not a subgenre of country in this blog.

Country music was always one of the few places that working class and especially rural working clas people had their stories told. If Allison does not see the loss of that as a loss someone should buy her the whole of Sharyn McCrumb’s Ballad Series.

Also, can we please stop lumping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4OzP9NImTU in with Taylor, Carrie and Kellie?

I think one of the bigger steroetypes I have come across is from musician friends. Alot of rock musicians tend to assume that country music is pretty simple to play, and more so than that, they assume that the simpler things that may be played comes from lack of talent, as opposed to the elusion of desire (for lack of a better term).

KIM: That’s percisely the problem with mainstream country–so much of it is still pretending that rural working class American is really the sterotypes LA screenwriters came up with for The Dukes of Hazzard.

Oh, no kidding Jon. Musics real simple when you can get by on power chords and distortion.

Change is inevitable. Trouble is, for the last decade and a half… “change” in country music has been in the hands of the enemy. Marketing hacks at the record labels….and conservative programmers at radio. Between them, they have hijacked what was once a solid, honest and stimulating genre. Artists that were just a little different were prized by both radio AND records.
Today, I fear that people like Johnny Cash, George Jones and Waylon Jennings would not be able to get a record deal. But you know what, there’s no use whining about it!

Like your Dukes example; that was offensive to the general “country” person but music that does the same thing isn’t. Why? Because the person doing it has authenticity from the country world for whatever reason, true or not. The industry can’t be totally to blame for the clique ridden mainstream music.

If Willie Nelson walked into a major label today , he wouldn’t get past the front desk. Looks should be the last thing on the list for the labels to consider. There is a video by a guy named Chris Cummings called Cowboy Hats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJPqu4F4Au4

What that and tell me that isn’t the way it works

I miss the outlaw music but I still find plenty of it. The country music I love is still around if you know where to look.

“Nicolas: Plus, she has a genunine love for real country which the others seem to lack.”

That’s why she headbangs and has a guy with a mohawk in her band! LOL! I like Miranda but she’s no more “real” country then the rest of them.

@Northtexas: “That’s why she headbangs and has a guy with a mohawk in her band! LOL! I like Miranda but she’s no more “real” country then the rest of them.”

What difference does the hairstyle of some guy playing in her band make? That’s a real shallow way to determine if she’s real country or not … sorry Miranda, you can’t be country until you’re band member gets rid of his mohawk

And who gives a crap if she headbangs to “Gunpowder & Lead”… that song is pretty heavy, its still country though … and you won’t see her headbanging to “Famous in a Small Town” or “More Like Her”

Go watch her 2008 CMA performance of “More Like Her” (the one highly-praised by 4-5 critics as “best of the night”) and you’ll see that she’s “real country”

If the Bob Newhart quote had been aimed at rap fans there would have been a outcry of racism (though most rap consumers are suburban, white, teenage boys.) Working class whites seem to be the last bastion for acceptable discrimination.

Country music stamped by approval by Nashville and country radio will nearly always be inferior to the country music you get off your ass and find yourself. If you’re that lazy you DESERVE to listen to Taylor Cyrus…er…Swift.

I agree with the musician stereotype about how many people think that country music playing is easy because it SOUNDS easy (except Keith Urban and Brad Paisley fretworks). I have been playing guitar for 5 years (fully admit myself as a novice still) but have learned the ropes of country strumming/picking and can play a decent cover on almost all of the songs, but when it comes to mimicking the exact sounds that you hear on the album, it’s a lot more tougher than you can imagine. It takes a good decade or two to reach that potential of all that bag o tricks to make it sound liike what you hear: radio airplay or album spinning).

@Danny: “nicolas, actually the most praised performance that day even if i dont want to admitted because i love miranda was underwood´s just a dream”

I’m afraid; one critic said that “More Like Her” and “Just a Dream” were the two best, but all the others said Miranda was the best… one gave each performance a grade, and Miranda received the only “A”

This is the age old conversation. The real benchmark is will the artist stand the test of time? Talking about Jones, or Waylon or anybody from the past means they have made music that mattered and still has meaning. Who from today’s crop has that? Who will we still be interested in 10 years from now and who will fade. Lee Ann Womack is still interesting, will Taylor or Rascal Flatts music matter in 20 years. Real Country is music that tells the story of people’s lives. Despite all the filler out there on country radio, the good stuff finds a way to matter.

The bottom line is that radio has run the entire music industry for years. These are radio stations made up of self important bafoons that think they actually know music. That is where the ignoring the buying public started.
The sad thing is, in country music, Music Row went with them due to the all mighty dollar. Now, there is just a slew of sound-a-like, look-a-like, song-a-like clones.
It is sad the lack of originality allowed…this is true not only in country, but popular music in general. And if you, as a singer/band/artist, don’t conform to that formula that radio or industry has allowed, they are pushed aside until the act is forced to come around. Two examples…Gary Allan and Marc Broussard. Both very original and unique in the their first 2 or 3 CDs, but as time has gone one, they both have stopped fighting and sound like everyone else…BUT because they didn’t conform early, they were listed as difficult by the powers that be which has held them both back.
Music is made in a factory type of mode…how much can we get out in how little time?? This makes quality suffer. Hopefully with major labels suffering, radio becoming useless and recording technology being affordable enough for TRUE artist to do it on their own and get out in a van and trailer to tour and build a true fan base, there is hope for the return of real heartfelt music, without the big machine interferrence that has gone on for so long.

The thing I find sad is Bradley Walker who I have the utmost respect for and love. He is talented and genuine etc.
What chance would he stand in mainstream country?

Thanks heavens for the Bluegrass music industry and it’s fans they welcomed him with open arms.

“Go watch her 2008 CMA performance of “More Like Her” (the one highly-praised by 4-5 critics as “best of the night”) and you’ll see that she’s “real country”

Interesting how folks like to cherry pick critics in order to try and prove a point.
I still believe that Miranda is more modern country then traditonal and who is “real” is a matter of individual interpretation. My humble opinion is that someone like Ashton Shepherd is a much better example of “real” country then Miranda.

By the way, I’ve seen Miranda perform live several times and am a fan.

The radio industry has done things in the name of pleasing “soccer moms”; most surveys show that “soccer moms” have much broader and deeper tastes than what the radio industry is presenting to them; but by all means let’s blame the powerless women who are told that a shallow, limited musical diet is what they want rather than the corporations making those statements.

Also, I love Bradley Walker, but I wish he’d stop hanging with the grassers and get himself a pedal steel player, which is what his voice really needs.

Very good conversations and arguments going on about this topic. I have been very critical of Taylor Swift, not so much against her, but the ACM Board who decide the approval of the winner. They really must have been paid off in some way, at least to allow Swift to beat out George Strait and/or Jamey Johnson.
The Troubadour record has got to be one of the best to come out of recent years from any of the country artists. While I respect the talent and artist that Swift is, I find it to be bubblegum country.
Where country music is going, one may not be sure with Chesney and Island Country, Rascal Flatts, the Boy Band Country, and Kellie, Taylor, Carrie, and Julianne, Pop Country…to be able to bring in a variety of fans to different aspects of country is making it the genre widely popular.
As a lover of country music since I was a kid and as a songwriter, I can tell you I have gone to back to traditional country to learn more about the roots and to find topics of interest in my songwriting.
Either way country music will always thrive I believe. I don’t believe or ever believe it will sell out like Hip-Hop did. Top 40 radio with its Rap music, mind you I am a Hip-Hop dancer and grew up listening to Hip-Hop as well, has been commercialized to sell. Eventhough I believe some in the country genre have done the same, I find many of the artists have pure intentions in songwriting and production.

somehow i dont see carrie beeing a horse racer ever.. i think of her as a martina or a weird combination of trisha yearwoof(vocally) and shania(commercial)

I don’t get where people think that Carrie Underwood elevates mainstream country to any real level. I post on some other message boards with rock fans and Carrie Underwood is one of those singers I have to convince people who “hate country” the singers I am going to introduce them to sound nothing like.

“I sure wish I could discover what talent people see in someone who rose to fame in a glorified karaoke contest.”

Well, you could have a listen to records by Loretta Lynn and Connie Smith, both of whom – and especially the latter – got critical career boosts from talent contests.

Steve, Carrie grew up on a farm in a small town, She began singing her first notes in church, got leads in school musicals and played at local fairs. It was in her last semester of college after many friends and her Mom kept saying that she should try out…that she took her last shot at any type of singing chance and auditioned for American Idol thinking she would never have a chance. She competed against over half a million people..and won that show. Mainly for these factors: 1. The girl could sing anything, big powerful AI voice, and was always in tune. 2. She was sweet, nice and darn cute. 3. It was the cinderella story, the American dream -a nobody taking a chance and winning the prize. This does not guarantee stardom as we see from other winners of American Idol who have lost contracts. Carrie has worked hard..yes trying to walk the line between pop and country. I figure she’s trying to please everyone. The AI fans who knew her as a country /pop singer and the country fans who have come to love her. She does have some country songs and performances to her credit: “Jesus Take the Wheel, Don’t forget to remember me” and yes “Before He cheats” she also did a great “Stand By Your Man” at the Opry and “Yellow Rose of Texas” on the Grammys. She plays at the Opry several times a year and just put out Randy Travis’s “I Told You So”. She’s trying to straddle the country/new country line more than other young blondes. Is it her fault, she took a last ditch effort chance, kept her faith in God and hit it big? Like Reba has said, “If AI was around when she was trying to make it, she would have taken a chance at it”.

Jon: No I am talking about how difficult it is to get people to give country music a try when all they hear of it is Carrie and that sort of thing.

“I love Bradley Walker, but I wish he’d stop hanging with the grassers…”

Nice to see Bradley name-checked, but that ain’t gonna happen; he *is* a grasser.

“Music is made in a factory type of mode…how much can we get out in how little time?? This makes quality suffer.”

Actually, most of the great country records of the 50s and 60s and 70s were made very, very quickly – much faster than country records today, and using an even smaller pool of musicians. Whatever problems one might perceive in the quality of today’s country music, the speed of production ain’t a cause.

Jon: No, I mean that Carrie is supposed to be bringing new fans into country music. But, when ever I bring new fans into country I have to go very far afield of her and convince said new fans that the country I am introducing them to sounds nothing like what they hear on the mainstream.

“But, when ever I bring new fans into country I have to go very far afield of her and convince said new fans…”

You mean, said rock fans. So again, do you think those are the only other kind of fans there are? And you think that all the folks buying Underwood’s discs are true-blue country fans?

This is interesting to see this discussion from an outside perspective. I agree with a lot of what NorthTexas said, but im gonna refrain from speaking my own opinions, although im sure you can assume what my argument would be ;)

“I think that most of the people who are buying Carrie’s albums are mainstream country fans. With a small side order of American Idol fans. Her last album did not do that imnpressively.”

Nobody’s albums are doing that impressively any more ;-). But I think you’re probably more or less right with respect to her audience; it’s the country music audience. So when you’re trying to tell today’s rock fans that country’s not all like Carrie Underwood, it’s kind of the way that someone in the late 60s or early 70s would tell the rock fans of that time that country wasn’t all like George Jones’ or Ray Price’s strings-heavy records?

I am not living in the past-if one looked on my Ipod I have more Cross Canadian Ragweed then Johnny Cash), but when I look at an artist, I ask myself I would want to see them in a honkytonk or dancehall. Somebody like Underwood or Taylor Swift have no interest for me because I see artists carefully shaped by produces and executives with little or no concert experience. For example, I can’t imagine either singing a controversial song like “The Pill” like Loretta Lynn. They are merely empty vessels designed for executives to milk the latest soccer mom craze.

“But again, the arguement we hear for people like Carrie making music which is barely distinguishable from pop…”

And yet according to your own argument, it’s country fans who are buying her records, and they’re clearly capable of distinguishing her music from pop; the same is true – again, according to your argument – of pop fans. They’re capable of distinguishing her music from pop, and they’re not buying it.

The confusion that necessarily attends these kinds of arguments underlines the fact that genre classification isn’t absolute; it’s contextual and, frequently, limited. The fact is that there are many strains of country music, and different ones will be good points of entry for fans of other kinds of music. Some of those fans will never go any farther than enjoying artists making country music that has many points of contact with other genres they enjoy, and some will go further and discover that they enjoy other kinds of country music. I just don’t see where there’s a problem.

“when I look at an artist, I ask myself I would want to see them in a honkytonk or dancehall.”

That’s all well and dandy for you personally, but why should anyone else care about that? It’s a criterion that’s pretty well disconnected from a lot of country music history.

“They are merely empty vessels designed for executives to milk the latest soccer mom craze.”

Ah, yes, those evil soccer moms. Getting back to the subject of country music stereotypes, are we?

So, that takes away the one advantage her fans keep telling us she brings to country.

So Carrie is being condemned because she doesn’t do controversial songs like “The Pill” and didn’t get her skills at performance because she didn’t come up through the bars and honky tonks? Well, thank God she didn’t. Remember, this girl from the farm grew up Christian. She would have rather stayed in college then go that route and rightly so. She is learning her craft from the likes of Alan Jackson, Kenny Chesney, Brad Paisley and Keith Urban. I saw her concert this year, she moves, she dances, she constantly touches the hands of fans, she talks to them, makes them laugh, she has a time in the middle where it’s just her and two acoustic guitars and talks and talks. She brought up a little girl each concert to sing “All American Girl” with her. In these times, this is refreshing. What is boring to some is absolutely praiseworthy to others.

I agree with others, Country does not have to be about sadness, heartache or someone going bad. It’s about emotion and that can run the gamut.

“So an artist that would not excite you if see him/her live would excite you on the radio? I don’t understand that mindset.”

Well, in the first place, it’s ok if you don’t understand it. But in the second place, that’s not remotely what I said. What I said was that performing in honky tonks and dance halls isn’t intrinsic to being a country music performer. If you think it is, then you’re missing a big part of the picture; there are plenty of other venues where country music has been performed and is being performed today.

“Because these are three year country fans not lifetime country fans.”

I’m skeptical of that, not only because I haven’t seen much (if any) evidence to support it, but because I remember hearing the exact same thing 15 and 20 years ago about new fans who included, from what I’m able to tell, a lot of people (like on The9513) who in fact stuck around.

“The are people who like country as long as it doesn’t sound country.”

As you know, I think that “sounds country” thing is kind of problematic ;-).

“And in the end appealing to fans who buy an album or two of obsessively popped out country per year causes country music to lose album sales and weakens the entire genre, NOT by completely changing the sound, but by completely eliminating the profit margin in making country.”

Huh? That doesn’t make any sense to me. How do album sales by one artist or several artists cause the genre as a whole to lose album sales? And how do they eliminate the profit margin in making country?

All due respect but I doubt Miranda will ever take Emmy Lou’s place in country music history or be on that level.

The thing that bugs me is the “quarterback marries the homecoming queen after they’ve dated since they were in kindergarten” suburbanite bull-crapification of “Small Town USA”. A lot of songs about “small towns” written by people who evidently have never been to one. However, instead of beating my head against the wall and still patronizing FM stations that play the Eagles as Classic Country, I’ve moved on to tapes, CDs, mp3s, etc. There’s always been dumb songs on the radio, we just forget about some of them after awhile.

Merlefan46: “Maybe if Miranda was on an indy label she wouldn’t have to fit the image that the label has created for her.”

Her label didn’t create an image for her, Miranda isn’t a cookie-cutter artist … almost everything on her albums is self-penned by herself, and many of the songs reflect real life things as country music should

i’m tired of people lumping certain artists into certain catagories without even bothering to listen to all the artists music. People who claim that so-and-so is “pop” or so-and-so is a “boyband.” when they don’t even own an artists album or bother to listen to any singles not fed to them by radio.

Nicolas: I meant to overproduced music. IT sure sounds different from when she was on Nashville Star I think that was the show.

Can’t wait to get his new cd!

Country music did not used to be sucessful because it had a handful of artists that sold a million copies to fans who bought no other country albums. Country music used to be sucessful because it had a large number of artists who sold less than a million a piece but who all had a lot of overlapping sales. We did not used to outsell pop by having 1 artist sell 1 million copies. We outsold pop because they had one artist who sold 1 million copies and we had five artists who sold a combined total of two million copies. Carrie Underwood may be able to sell a million albums, but she does not have a fan based stteped enough in country to buy that many country albums. If she did, album sales in the genre overall would not be down so much.
Record labels have tilted their marketing to the model where one artist sells a million albums and does not realize the value of more artists selling fewer albums. Its no surprise that this occurred around the same time that an increasing number of the money people at country labels were former pop label people. This marketing system fails for two reasons: First because it ignores the sucessful method of selling country music and second because it leaves country music with a fan base too small to weather changes in fan fads. Unfortunatly, this lack of revenue means that labels have less money so their roosters become smaller which leaves them with fewer artists to help pull them out of downward trends.

I meant more about the “Gunpowder & Lead” song she wrote while in a concealed handgun class, she wrote “Greyhound Bound for Nowhere” on the front porch w/ her dad, and she wrote “Dead Flowers” when she dumped some dying V-day flowers out on her lawn

It doesn’t all have to be true though, “C-EXG” is just a fun song thats all there is to it

Her records are selling to country fans, who are short term fans and not loyal fans of country. If they were, they would be buying more country cds and country music would not be dropping sales.

Because album sales continue to decline year after year.

Stormy, I find a similar problem to get people who say they hate country music but that’s because of traditional outdated country and to get them to like country show them Carrie, Taylor, and Keith music.

Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood wont bring listeners to Jamie Johnson but they do to Sarah Evans and Miranda Lambert.

and “We outsold pop because they had one artist who sold 1 million copies and we had five artists who sold a combined total of two million copies.”

With sales going down country artist are still selling close but problems with this in 2000 biggest pop acts were selling over 10 million now the biggest pop singer sold 2 million more than 80 percent drop. Country music hasn’t saw that much of a drop in sales

What stereotypes—from soccer moms to rednecks to outlaws—about country music do you encounter most often, and which bug you the most? How do you respond to people, like Newhart, who take digs at country music?

I grew up in a beach town in Southern California (near a large city) so the stereotypes I encountered most often associated with country music were that country music was for hicks, rednecks, people who talked slow and didn’t have a clue. I’m not trying to offend anyone, but that’s what I encountered. I went to Vanderbilt my freshman year in college and I can’t count how many coonskin cap/Daniel Boone-esque references I got. There was absolutely nothing remotely cool or hip about country music. Even these days, some of my friends like the occasional Keith Urban or Dixie Chicks song, but that’s about it. If I take a friend to a country music concert, I definitely still have to buy the ticket!

That said, I think a lot of my friends would like a lot of country music if they ignored country radio and what was being promoted as country music and discovered the depth and breadth of the genre. The quality of music is there – even today. It’s the quality that I care about, not whether it’s pop/traditional, etc. (although, if there is no relation whatsoever to country, I do get annoyed). Great music has a tendency to transcend genre and overcome prejudices.

“Country” can’t be confined to one stereotype. It is an evolving genre that brings the traditional and new American styles together. For example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bct8LS6Nwrw.

Popular country music is far too sugary sweet now. I totally take issue with the CMT blog quote “with the precarious state our nation’s in, why in the world would country fans want songs about senseless killings, prison life and heavy drinking?”

Songs about killing, prison, and drinking got us through the Great Depression. Thank you Carter Family.

“Songs about killing, prison, and drinking got us through the Great Depression. Thank you Carter Family.”

Huh? There must have been some other Carter Family singing songs about killing, prison and drinking than the one that’s in the Country Music Hall of Fame, because the latter didn’t hardly do that at all.

In fact, Tuttle repeats one misperception of early country music that’s regrettably widespread – namely, that there are “many, many” songs like “Banks Of The Ohio.” The folks who do that tend to overlook or dismiss the strong gospel and inspirational and comic elements of country music tradition (all of which played a larger part than songs about killing, prison and drinking during the Great Depression), while those who underline these tend to overlook or dismiss the darker ones. Keeping a more balanced, multi-dimensional view isn’t always easy, but it’s the most accurate one.

Here are my thoughts on this new song – Shuttin Detroit Down. A song about our economy and the sorry state the majority of us are facing or living at this very moment hurts me. I have been laid off from my job, but have returned, but with another layoff expected soon, we never know when my husband is going to work…last week he was called in to work for just 2 days. However, I am fortunate that we are still able to pay our bills, but I am afraid that I will have to be telling my daughter she’ll need to come home from college.

What bothers me the most about this song is that Mr. Rich is more than likely going to make some money from the song. He is using the majority of the citizens of America to make more millions. Obviously, the current situation of our economy has not affected Mr. Rich only that he is looking to make some more money off this situation. Doesn’t he have enough?

I feel this is just taking advantage of the people who already made him a millionaire, before this song I had no problem with it. It is very very inappropriate for Mr. Rich to use our current sad state of affairs to gain more.

Maybe if he would give back what he earns off this song…I could feel a little different about it. Right now, I am feeling used.

I saw his interview on CMT. Writing a song like this? How is it helping anyone? Maybe Mr. Rich

PS As I am writing this, I received a call from my husband…he will be laid off starting Monday and who knows for how long

Thanks for listening

Wasn’t “Keep On The Sunny Side” released during the Great Depression?

The Carter Family recorded a number of songs multiple times, usually for different labels. “Keep On The Sunny Side” was first recorded on May 10, 1928, and several times thereafter.

Taking a quick look through their discography, there’s really only one title that jumps out as related to killing, and that’s “John Hardy Was A Desperate Little Man.” A fair amount of death, not surprisingly, but mostly from illness, accidents, old age and broken hearts, not homicide.

““Keep On The Sunny Side” was first recorded on May 10, 1928, and several times thereafter.

Was it not recorded at the session the day before?

“That would depend on exactly when you count the start of the Great Depression”

I figured Black Tuesday was the generally accepted start date.

Traditional is still being played
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_a_9MBhP0c

You know what. Toby Keith has got to get a life and Taylor swift needs to learn to sing and get a little more figure.