Your Take: Cherry Picking

I’ll be dissapointed in certain songs from time to time, but I will still buy the albums for the most part cause I figure it’s an artist peice of work that they want you to hear so I” oblige them.

Kartina Elam’s debut and Terri Clark’s “Fearless” are two I never reach for the next button.

There’s some songs on albums I don’t love as much as others, but I don’t ever find myself “cherry pickin”.

Although Heidi Newfield’s debut album could be an exception that comes to mind… “Johnny & June” is the only one really worth buying imho.

I don’t think fans should be ‘entitled’ to anything.

Collin Raye’s “I Think About You” The Mavericks “What A Crying Shame” are two I rarely skipped any tracks on. Recent albums that have gotten this treatment are “The Outsider” and “Sex and Gasoline” from Rodney Crowell, “Roadhammers II” from the Roadhammers and “Love On The Inside” from Sugarland.

“As far as wether or not each song should knock me off of my feet goes, I think thats a flawed mentality. Good is subjective when it comes to music, so to expect an artist to please me with every track is a little ambitious.”

You got that right.

I’ve read Reba’s track-by-track comments on the new album, and if there’s somewhere where she said that any of its song was a dud that she just recorded to fill out the album, I must have missed it. That doesn’t invalidate anyone’s opinion that some cuts are more enjoyable than others, but it does suggest that she, like most artists, didn’t set out to make a “some killer, some filler” album. And the notion that the passage of more than x amount of time between one album and the next means that a listener is “entitled” to expect to be more pleased with more of its songs is a little suspect.

I don’t think fans should be ‘entitled’ to anything.

Any potential consumer of any product should have the reasonable expectation of liking what they are being asked to buy.

I generally do buy entire albums, unless it’s an artist for whom I’m just a casual fan, or if the artist’s albums have disappointed me enough times that I’m no longer willing to spend $10 to $13 when I’m only going to like two or three songs in the collection.

I’ve read Reba’s track-by-track comments on the new album, and if there’s somewhere where she said that any of its song was a dud that she just recorded to fill out the album, I must have missed it.

When has any artist, when discussing their albums, identified which songs are the “good” ones and which ones are the “duds”?

That doesn’t invalidate anyone’s opinion that some cuts are more enjoyable than others, but it does suggest that she, like most artists, didn’t set out to make a “some killer, some filler” album.

I doubt that anybody deliberately sets out to make a “some killer, some filler” album, but often that is the result. I certainly don’t think that was Reba’s approach, but I do think she chose a widely eclectic set of songs, in order to offer a little something to please everybody. But the risk in that approach is that a significant number of fans mayjust download the tracks that are in alignment with their tastes and leave the ones that aren’t.

And the notion that the passage of more than x amount of time between one album and the next means that a listener is “entitled” to expect to be more pleased with more of its songs is a little suspect.

Please explain why it’s not reasonable for fans to expect to like what they’re paying for?? I’m with Paul; in the old days when artists released an album every year — or two or three a year — if an album didn’t your expectations, at least you knew there wasn’t that long a wait until the next one came out. But now the wait is usually two years or more, so it’s a huge disappointment when an album by your favorite artist isn’t as good as you’d hoped it would be.

I hope that an artist will put out an album of all amazing songs, but that so rarely happens that you’ll always end up disappointed. I just try to take the music for what it is and find the best in it- if there’s anything there at all.

As for albums that I love every song, Trisha Yearwood’s HHatPoL definitely falls in there, as well as both of Lee Ann Womack’s most recent albums. Sugarland’s Love on the Inside is also one of my favorites as well as Patty Loveless’ Trouble With The Truth and When Fallen Angels Fly.

“I doubt that anybody deliberately sets out to make a “some killer, some filler” album, but often that is the result.”

Evaluating the result is a matter of taste, isn’t it? What you find killer, others might find filler, and vice versa – and perhaps some will find an album all one or the other.

“I certainly don’t think that was Reba’s approach, but I do think she chose a widely eclectic set of songs, in order to offer a little something to please everybody.”

Widely eclectic set, sure; “in order to,” well, maybe. Maybe she picked songs she really liked, and they turned out to have a lot of variety to them. Maybe she thought, “boy, I can do a lot of different kinds of stuff, and I really want to show that off this time around.” Both of those have been known to happen. Trying to deduce the motive from the result isn’t necessarily a good idea.

” But the risk in that approach is that a significant number of fans may just download the tracks that are in alignment with their tastes and leave the ones that aren’t.”

That’s the risk with any set of songs, widely eclectic or not, unless you’re going to put the same track on an album 10 times. Which poses its own set of problems ;-). No matter how stylistically narrow a set of songs is, there are plenty of people who will prefer some of them to others – or none at all.

I think it’s reasonable to expect that you’ll like some songs on an album more than others.

It’s not only reasonable, it’s inevitable.

I think it’s unreasonable to think that you’re “entitled to expect that you’ll love every song,” at least until you can tell me from where that entitlement derives.

Perhaps expecting to “love” every song is overstating things a bit, but I do expect to like every song. And if I’m a longtime fan of an artist and have been buying every album they’ve released over the years, and enjoyed them all, I think it’s reasonable to expect that I’ll like the next one they put out, based on past experience. Inevitably, I’ll prefer some albums to others, just as I prefer some songs to others within an individual album. I can forgive an occasional album that doesn’t meet my expections, but if it starts happening on a consistent basis, then I’m going to stop buying that artist’s albums.

“I will say that I think it’s fairly reasonable to expect a higher quality total package when an album takes a while to come to fruition. This does allow plenty of time for the artist to compile the best collection of songs they can.”

Well, quality’s another slippery concept ;-).

I think there’s some validity to this, but there’s often little connection between the amount of time that’s passed between one release and the next and the amount of time actually spent on working on the latter. Some artists may start thinking about the next album as soon as they’ve finished one, others don’t think about it until they get ready to book studio time.

“As for albums that I love every song, Trisha Yearwood’s HHatPoL definitely falls in there, as well as both of Lee Ann Womack’s most recent albums. Sugarland’s Love on the Inside is also one of my favorites as well as Patty Loveless’ Trouble With The Truth and When Fallen Angels Fly.”

I’d put all those on my list too, I knew I liked you, Chris.

I’d also add Trisha Yearwood’s Inside Out, Garth Brooks’ first 6 studio albums, and anything Reba recorded between 1984 and 1999. Most of what Razor has on his list are albums I rarely skip tracks on too – the ones I have anyway.

” … I’m sorry if the artist wants their album to be a cohesive piece of art ….

I don’t think very many albums actually are cohesive pieces of art. That is the rationalization that Garth Brooks uses for not allowing his catalog to be sold digitally. But the number of hits compilations he’s sold over the years invalidates that argument.

Garth Brooks always struck me as a man who is passionate about everything he does, whether it’s a stadium show for 30,000 people or trimming the hedges. So I can see him being very hands-on with all the hits packages he’s released over the years. I don’t want to start a whole thing about this here, but I can see his point in not wanting to release his albums digitally unless they’re sold as whole packages. His early albums are certainly cohesive and thematically in-tact all around. And I’m sure when he looks back at them, he remembers exactly where he was at that point in his life, and why and how he recorded each song, making the music all the more personal for him. In my opinion his albums are nothing short of modern works of art anyway. You should no more take apart a Garth Brooks album to sell in pieces than you should a painting by Jasper Johns. Just my humble opinion – for what it’s worth.

” I love digital just for that reason. I’m sorry if the artist wants their album to be a cohesive piece of art, but as a consumer, I’m very pleased to have the option not to buy an entire album if I don’t like most of the project.”

I think it’s fine for consumers to have that option – if artists also have the option of offering an album-only download. Regrettably, the biggest download retailer has been resisting that. It seems to me that if an artist feels strongly that s/he wants buyers to either purchase the full album or nothing – and to offer it online on those terms – s/he ought to be able to do so. And unless something’s changed recently, iTunes won’t permit that.

Tim McGraw’s ‘Set This Circus Down’ is an album I never have to skip through.

Hits compilations are inevitable in any artist’ catalog, the label obviously wanted to have one.

The label didn’t tell Garth what to do. It was the other way around. Besides, he is still issuing hits compilations and he has full control over his catalog.

…I assume he took great care in selecting the songs (as Leeann pointed out). And his 2007 package had 4 new songs, basically an EP itself, plus almost all his hits, making the hits collections he’s released the same quality packages as his albums IMO.

You’re missing the point. It’s not a question about the quality of his hits compilations. I just don’t see how one can make the argument that making tracks individually available for digital downloading violates the sanctity of the album, but it’s OK for an artist or his label to compile a collection of songs from those same albums.

“…but it’s OK for an artist or his label to compile a collection of songs from those same albums.”

But since it’s the artist who’s creating them, doesn’t that put the compilations in the same category as the albums they’re compiled from?

I can totally see the other side of this issue. And actually, I wish he’d just go ahead and release them – his holding out isn’t stopping any other artists from doing it, and isn’t stopping people from ‘cherry-picking’ places like Limewire either. But I definitely see Garth’s point too. And like Leeann, being a huge Garth fan, it’s harder for me to be objective. But I admit it.

” But since it’s the artist who’s creating them, doesn’t that put the compilations in the same category as the albums they’re compiled from? ”

Compiling a selection of songs for a greatest hits album doesn’t qualify as art, in my opinion.

There was never any objection to individual singles being played on the radio and I assume that some of those singles were available for sale at retail. So why the objection to making them available for sale digitally?

I would say that most of the albums that I don’t skip through are the ones that I listened to in the early ’90s when I was in my teens, for a couple of reasons: 1. I had them on tape and fast forewarding on tapes was tricky and 2. I didn’t buy music as much then as I do now because I couldn’t afford to. I probably spent more time poring over the albums for that reason too. A good test for me is when I bought the album on CD years later, do I skip any tracks now that it’s easier to?

My short no-skip list: In Pieces and Ropin’ the Wind – Garth Brooks, Physical Graffiti – Led Zeppelin, No Time To Kill – Clint Black, Pickin’ on Nashville – The Kentucky Headhunters, Modern Times – Bob Dylan.

““Because it’s the artist; s/he may be making a new album out of material from other albums, but it’s still the artist making the selection and sequencing and presenting a full project. D’oh… “
Which will likely be ripped to a hard drive and copied to an MP3 player or put in a multi-disc CD changer and put on shuffle play with God knows what else. It’s a bogus argument.”

Well, no, it’s not, because it’s not about what consumers might do with an album once it’s bought, it’s about whether artists should have the option of presenting you with a full package on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

“There was never any objection to individual singles being played on the radio…”

Well, let’s see; in the first place, if you don’t send a release to radio, it doesn’t get much airplay, so an artist always has that choice. In the second, airplay of a single from an album can serve to promote the album, encouraging people to buy…the whole album. So that’s pretty much irrelevant.

“… and I assume that some of those singles were available for sale at retail. So why the objection to making them available for sale digitally?”

See above. The issue is creator choice vs. consumer sense of “entitlement.”

I think it’s reasonable to expect you’ll like an album from a singer whose material you’ve been buying on release day for the last decade-plus or so (I just use that yardstick because that’s what I’ve been doing with Strait and Jackson). But to expect to love every song — or to even feel entitled to that — seems to be a bit much, no matter the frequency of album releases. Even the Strait man has had some real duds on his albums over the years, but to me that’s ok. Even that’s purely subjective, though. I’m sure there are a lot of newer fans who just loved “River of Love” and “How ‘Bout Them Cowgirls,” indeed thought of them as the best cuts on their respective albums.
As for refusing to sell single songs, that seems to me to be a bit, I don’t know, petty? I know it’s Garth Brooks’ creation and he has the right to do with it as he sees fit, but why not just take that logic a little further and say that when radio plays the singles they have to do it by playing the entire albums in order? Some albums are better heard that way (see Queensryche’s Operation: Mindcrime), but even so most of the time the individual songs stand just fine on their own.
Some of the no-skippers for me:
George Strait, Blue Clear Sky & Does Ft. Worth Ever Cross Your Mind
Metallica, Ride the Lightning & Master of Puppets
Alan Jackson, Who I Am & Drive

LeeAnn Womack – There’s More Where That Came From (in particular, but this lady’s albums are always stellar)
Jamey Johnson – That Lonesome Song (Can’t wait for his new release)
Toby Keith – That Don’t Make Me a Bad Guy & Honky Tonk Uunversity (his catalog of songs that have NOT been “radio play songs” are actually among my favorites of his)
Gary Allan – Tough All Over and Living Hard

I think I could go on and on…there is SO much great music out there…but I’ll stop here…for now

I think it is reasonable for me to only spend my money on something that I like. For me it is a question of competition. If I have ten cds to choose from, why would I not pick the one cd that offers the largest number of songs I will most likely like?
As for the whole issue of cherry picking, for me, Reba benefts by having individual tracks for sale. Because, for me, if I could not buy a track or two off of this album I would pass it by altogether.
As for albums I can listen to without skipping, there are too may to name here, but the top ten (at one per artist)would be:
Lucinda Williams-Essence
Rodney Crowell–The Houston Kid
Kasey Chambers–Barricades and Brickwalls
Neko Case–Furnace Room Lullaby
Tift Merritt-Another Country
Kathleen Edwards–Asking for Flowes
Emmylou Harris–Quarter Moon in a Ten Cent Town
Drive By Truckers–The Dirty South
Ryan Adams–Easy Tiger
The Duhks–Fast Paced World.

Baron – what about phases and stages as an album with a story arc? personally, as a divorced (and happily remarried) man, I prefer the second side of the lp ;-)

Some of my “no skip” albums:
Lucinda – Car Wheels
Reckless Kelly – Milican
Jack Ingram – Hey You
Billy Bragg & Wilco – Mermaid Sessions I
Ray Lamontagne – Trouble
Dwight Yoakam – A Long Way Home
REM – Murmur
Swell Season – Music from the Movie “Once”
Radiohead – OK Computer
Whiskeytown – Strangers Almanac
Slobberbone – Barrell Chested
Steve Earle – El Corazon
Grateful Dead – American Beauty
George Strait – Lead On
Nirvana – Unplugged

Ah, what could be more entertaining than employing the language of morality to justify thievery?

Furthermore, your assumption with respect to his hits having been issued for sale as individual singles appears to be largely incorrect, invalidating your claim of inconsistency.

Some of his singles were only made available to radio but some of them were available for sale, which is why I said SOME of them were available for retail sale. The fact that all of them weren’t in no way invalidates my argument. Nice try, though.

“Some of his singles were only made available to radio but some of them were available for sale…”

According to allmusic, after “If Tomorrow Never Comes” was released as a cassette single in 1989, no singles with Brooks were released until 1998, at which time the multi-artist benefit song “One Heart At A Time” was issued as a single. “To Make You Feel My Love” appears to have been released as a single, but possibly only overseas. The Chris Gaines song, “Lost In You” was released as a single. The Christmas song, “Call Me Claus” was released as a single. And a duet with Huey Lewis was released as a single.

Now, do you honestly believe that saying “some of” his hits were available for sale is an accurate representation of that?

Now, do you honestly believe that saying “some of” his hits were available for sale is an accurate representation of that?

Yes.

Actually I was the one who said Garth Brooks’ albums were modern works of art. I still stand by that contention – but I’d also claim albums made during the same period by Reba, Patty Loveless, Alan Jackson, and even Diamond Rio are too.

This thread has gotten fun to read …

The state of the music industry should force artists & labels to put out albums with no filler. Four hits & filler worked in the past, but can’t anymore. There is a way around the crap, now.

Two records that are 100% solid..

Miranda Lambert – Kerosene
Miranda Lambert – Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

I’ll take a guess on number three..

Miranda Lambert – Revolution (Sept. 29)

No, no, I said “honestly” and “accurate.” I suggest you consult a dictionary, since it appears you are unfamiliar with their meanings.

Sucks to lose the debate, doesn’t it, Jon?

P.S. suck it up you big babies, this ain’t youtube.

I will have to add one more –

Satisfied by Ashley Monroe

Matt, I’m glad to hear that as Cris N. at Country Weekly was right on when he reviewed Chris’s debut album and described it as so full of filler he was surprised the disc didn’t float away! Its nice that the current single from Chris has finally hit the Top 20 at country radio. If his new album is as good as you say, then maybe he can have the career his talent deserves. Country radio desperately needs another Keith Whitley type these days.

Some of my favorite No skip albums:
Lane Turner – Right On Time (sadly unreleased)
The Woodys – Teardrops and Diamonds (Amazingly good!)
Kimber Sparks – Its Her Turn (Aussie album)
Harmony James – Tailwind (Aussie album)
Trish Murphy – Girls Get In Free (Although “St. Christopher” makes my finger twitch a little)
Willie & The Wheel! (Now that is m kind of music!)