The Malec Minute: Sugarland Lawsuit Sheds Light on Hall’s Departure

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“there’s gotta be somethin’ more…”

sorry, couldnt help it….

Chris–my pinky is fairly high in that picture.

Drew–I think what’s interesting about this is that some would say they had “already made it.” Which does give some credibility to the idea that Kristen was the one who wanted to leave.

Blake–one point you just brushed up against, but which I didn’t mention in this piece, is this: if they parted on friendly terms, why hasn’t Hall been a part of their writing?

Everything here is speculation, but I think we can justifiably question certain inconsistencies in how this has all played out.

My guess is that the label felt Hall more expendable as she wasn’t, in the public’s eye, a contributing member of the band. Yes, she was probably the biggest songwriter on the first album, but to the public the band was, is, and will be Jennifer Nettles. Kristian Bush is tolerated because there’s always room in country music for a man who does nothing but stand there, strum a guitar, and maybe sing a few words (I’m looking at YOU, Kix Brooks), but it seems like someone of Hall’s image would probably be deemed a liability, or at least expendable.

While we’re in the world of speculation, I wonder if there was going to be some sort of big deal made in the near future about Kristen’s sexuality. It was largely unknown during the first album, but I wonder if there was something about to come out in some publication about her, or if nothing else (this goes along with what Jim said) the label feared the reaction of the conservative base to an openly lesbian member of the trio.

Whatever the reasoning, the sell the label gave to Bush and Nettles probably convinced them that removing Hall was the way to go, and when they (I assume it would be the two of them to break the news, not the label) let her know the bad news, it led to an acrimonious split, though I doubt the split was initiated by Bush/Nettles. The song “Sugarland” from their second album was probably the one relic left from before their split.

Ultimately, she must have been found expendable, as her image (in the label’s eye) would have endangered their success to the fan base that was starting to open up to blonde bombshells like Carrie, Taylor, et al, and her sexuality (in the label’s eye) would have endangered their success to conservatives. Just my two cents.

Where’s “Behind the Music” when you need it?

I think the fact that Hall is a lesbian simply hadn’t caught on as a narrative with the mainstream media yet. Realize, at this time, there was no The 9513, and many of the other country news outlets depend on stars for their content. Why would GAC or CMT pound that story when it would potentially derail one of their best windfalls in years? If you go back and look at Hall’s interviews and such prior to Sugarland, I don’t think there was any question about her orientation.

I agree with you that it was risky–but the question is…which way was more risky?

I love Behind the Music!

Who cares if she’s gay… some people still love Wynonna!

:)

It’s a sad fact in our country that the powers that be are afraid of gay artists. It’s not just limited to country music but any genre of music (except perhaps dance) and film/TV. They just think that the masses cannot relate to a star if they’re “out.” It’s absurd that this happens but that seems to be a driving force behind decisions like what may have happened with Kristen Hall.

The timing of this lawsuit isn’t really all that much of a surprise. Sugarland is at the height of their popularity. They’re getting all kinds of media attention. I imagine Hall might be a bit ticked off…and Hall’s attorneys see a situation ripe for a big settlement.

As far as the potential lesbian issue — I really don’t want to believe that a talented woman, who just so happens to be a lesbian, was kicked out of a group on the rise for that reason alone. I understand that some people may still care about that sort of thing, I just don’t know any of them, and Jennifer and Kristian never came off as the sort of people who would place any importance on that kind of thing. In fact, I’ve heard they were well-known as being very friendly towards the gay community in Atlanta.

As far as image — I don’t believe that Jennifer and Kristian are popular because of their image. In many ways, I think they’re the exception to the rule in country music right now. They are popular for their catchy pop music and energy. Neither one of them is particularly attractive. They’re just likable people who give off a down home, girl/guy next door image. I can’t imagine that Hall’s weight or whatever would have had any effect on that image.

Country music seems to be begging for diversity right now. If the rumors are true that the industry/label pushed them out, in this case (IMO), they shot themselves in the foot. Just another case of putting style over substance.

I’m not entirely convinced that Hall’s sexuality was the problem. If Jennifer Nettles were a lesbian, I could see that being a problem, but I really don’t think the public would have cared very much since Hall was pretty much in the background most of the time. I may be wrong, but I don’t recall K.D. Lang having any problems because of her sexuality. People were generally supportive. It was the “meat stinks” thing that did her in as a commercially viable act in Nashville.

While I have no idea if her orientation played a part in any of this, I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if it did. It’s not like the country music industry wouldn’t run screaming if they discovered one of their artists was gay or lesbian. I cannot think of one gay or lesbian artist in the country music business who has gotten any significant or even insignificant airplay…and I’m not talking about loose speculation. So, I’m surprised that people are so sure that this wouldn’t have played a part in the dissolution of Halls partnership with the group.

Leann said, “So, I’m surprised that people are so sure that this wouldn’t have played a part in the dissolution of Halls partnership with the group.”

Speaking for myself only, I’m not so sure it wouldn’t have played a part. I’m just not sure that it actually did. Her sexuality was never a secret and I don’t think anyone would have been surprised upon getting confirmation of it. If it were a problem, I don’t understand why it wasn’t addressed when the group first got their record deal. That’s the point at which you’d expect some personnel changes to make the group more marketable. Why wait until a year or more later to deal with the issue? That’s far risker, I would think.

AnyI, personally, don’t care about someone’s sexual orientation. I, however, believe that the typically conservative fan base would care. Therefore, I think that the country music labels would conceivably try to avoid that kind of controversy.

Do I believe her sexual orientation played a role? Sure, to a small degree, but I think her general image itself was the majority of the problem. Trying to market themselves with the youthful, commercial country realm was going to be that much harder with Kristen, who was well into her 40s when the first record came out and clearly not one of the “pretty young things” of country music.

Razor X, I agree with your “huh?” on Marc’s Wynonna comment. I’m not really sure where that’s coming from.

You wasted your time with the half of your piece that suggested she wasn’t forced out. She was forced out, and there was some agreement about future earnings, since she had hired Jennifer (and probably Kristian also), she had hired the manager, she’d probably come up with the name of the group. It had basically been her band. She was pretty bitter about the whole deal, after which she attempted to become a part of the N’ville songwriter scene, and I think she still writes with some folks in town. Now she’s trying to collect what is pretty rightfully hers, and is an amount of money that she could never earn playing the Atlanta club scene.
The most surprising thing is that she actually has had to file a lawsuit (assuming it has been filed). Ordinarily these things are worked out out of the public eye. She may have had to hire a publicist to press her point and apply some pressure to those who remain.

it looks really intensional that she filed the lawsuit the same day that their new cd came out…

I think the key questions are this:
1. When was the agreement signed between the original three Sugarland members?
2. When it was signed did Nettles and Bush and Hall know that Hall wasn’t interested in moving forward beyond a certain point, or was Hall forced out and the rest of the group had to reckon with the temrs of the agreement?
3. If the parting was indeed amicable from a financial perspective, how come Hall hasn’t contributed any further songs to the group’s work?
4. Tell me why I need to care about this again?
5. Hall is really a 1/3 partner in Sugarland for all time? Lou Pearlman would be proud of her contractual acumen.

I’m late to add to this, but I spent a decent amount of time around the band in 2006 and became familiar with their story and personalities. I think Danielle adds a lot of insight to what had otherwise been mostly speculation.

Hall did form the band. She approached Bush about forming a country group when the two were writing songs together. Hall found Nettles and suggested to Bush that they hire her as a singer. She found the manager, set up publishing, etc. She was much, much more than just a contributing writer. She wrote or co-wrote all of their early material and arranged the songs in pre-production, and so on. It wasn’t evident on stage, but she was the band’s driving force before and during the first record. It’s just once they went on tour, Jennifer’s big, fun personality took over, and the dynamics started to change.

Hall also struggled the most with the road, and she had health problems flaring up because of it. That first year of success, the band worked incredibly hard, even more than the usual grueling schedules for a new hit act. They got a lot of opening slots, going from tour to tour and already garnering a rare level of exposure in the media, from CMT to People magazine, etc. They were always on the go, go, go. Nettles and Bush struggled, too, from the time and travel demands of it all. But Hall was older and not as fit, and she also had a relationship break apart while the others were in marriages (Jennifer’s was still going at the time). All of this made it harder on her than the others, it seemed. When I was around them, her complaints and problems were more on the surface than the others.

I’m not sure what all contributed to her leaving, but those who know her say she was forced out and unhappy about it, but the agreement had them all putting a positive spin on it. It had to be have been difficult on all involved to get to the point of her leaving.

Hall getting a cut of future income wouldn’t be out of the question. It happens in production deals, etc. It’s not unprecedented for a band member to get money when no longer performing or recording with the band. Brian Wilson always got band money from the Beach Boys when he didn’t tour beyone his songwriting royalties, and Ed King received a cut of Lynyrd Skynyrd’s income when he left Lynyrd Skynyrd, as did the estates of members who died in the plane wreck. There are other cases, too, where integral members of groups continued to profit from non-songwwriting income even after departing the band. If you’re legally bound to the band through the incorporating of its name, you can sometimes work deals this way.

kd lang had NOTHING but problems during her Nashville stint and it was ENTIRELY because of her sexuality. She wasn’t even publicly out then (unlike Hall). Oh, there was that part about how she thought she was Patsy Cline incarnate, but still.

With only a couple singles that managed to barely hit the Top 40, she won her “country vocal performance – female” Grammy back in 1989 with the same support from Music City that it offered the Dixie Chicks at last year’s Grammy show.

The “I’m anti-beef” thing only hurt her in Canada, which was when she crossed from country to mainstream.

Personally, I became suspicious of Sugarland’s relationship with Kristen when it seemed — after all that time she devoted to songwriting — only one song she co-wrote made it onto the “Enjoy the Ride” album.

Posted on the CMT.com site this afternoon:

An attorney for Sugarland has released a statement that a lawsuit by Kristen Hall, one of the band’s founders who left in 2005, is “totally baseless and without merit.” Hall filed a lawsuit on July 29 claiming she is owed $1.5 million, plus interest, from revenue stemming from an unwritten agreement with the band at the time of her departure. The statement from Gary Gilbert also says that, “Among other factual inaccuracies suggested in the complaint, it is indisputable that Ms. Hall left the group voluntarily and on her own accord. We are absolutely confident that this matter will be resolved in favor of Jennifer and Kristian.”

For those of us from Atlanta, who have both followed the local music scene as well as been around all three of these musicians over 10 years, none of us are surprised that Kristen left the band, and then filed a lawsuit. We already were not surprised that she would rather sit on the couch and reap royalties than get out and tour a tough schedule promoting a new album. I would guess losing a member just when things get rolling would be an obstacle rather than a help. I would imagine they allowed her to leave knowing it could be risky, and now they are getting bitten for allowing her to bail out, because she wants to quit and still make the big bucks. I do not possess any insider info on the subject. But I do know that both kristian and jennifer played gay audiences for years, they could have cared less about orientation. Now, what you may not realize, is that Kristen is not known for her good attitude. I can imagine that her attitude would be a problem. In fact we were surprised that such a whiner would be involved with jennifer and kristian in the first place. (Have you ever heard her solo music? She has a good voice, good writing, but FEELS SORRY FOR HERSELF, a lot.) You know the kind of person with talent, but not so much drive and tends to like to stay unhappy rather than happy.

As far as her departure being for image purposes, I would concur that her look was not an asset. But I feel sure that this would have been addressed by the label earlier on as she is hard to miss. I cannot see either Kristian or Jennifer caring at all. They would probably say bring it on, we don’t care, we just want to play music. Lastly, I was under the impression that she left because she did not want to endure the heavy demands of success and was not so comfortable playing such large crowds and big time events.

I actually don’t believe that if Hall was pushed out that it was by Bush or Nettles. I would think that it was more of a label/management decision.

Yes, Jennifer is Gay friendly, but that doesn’t mean the label is. Sugarland was a band of 5, and we never got to find out “why” the two other members got dumped with the record deal. Unfortunately, that matter went to private arbitration, and we will never know. What I hope is that this stays the full course and goes to trial; that all the dirty laundry gets aired as the fans have a right to know as their money supported them at their shows and for their CD sales.

I don’t blame the players as much as I blame management, the label, and the lawyers who didn’t end things when they should have (at Ms. Hall’s departure) but thought that nothing would be done and they would get away with the dirty dead.

I also find it interesting that Ms. Hall wasn’t paid since December 20th according to the papers filed, however, she appeared on Dick Clark’s New Year’s Eve Special with the trio. What a cheap shot!

Well, insensitive anyway.

I started reading all I could get my hands on right after I saw Baby Girl on CMT and GAC to see what kind of magic had put together what I thought to be a very outstanding, upbeat song with a storyline every potential young female singer dreams of. Once I bought and was introduced to “Twice the Speed of Life,” then latched onto the Eddie’s Attic album, “Premium Quality Tunes” and the double shot of “Sugar in the Raw,” I felt this was a trio I could easily learn to love. Most of the earlier articles I read were by and of Kristen Hall and more so, because of her success as an indie, Jennifer Nettles.

I always thought Kristen’s interviews indicated an up and down moodswing because she was loving the early publicity and had the band name to her credit and made two careful and successful selections in asking Kristian to write with her and hit “pay dirt” when Jen said, “heck, I’ll give it a chance.” But I always got the feeling Kristen was so shy it was difficult for her to get on stage for every performance and the Meet and Greets (a part of successful band development) she felt very uncomfortable with. But she loved to write, that was her passion. Of all the statements that I read by her in the band’s move to excellence the one that always stuck with me was “Do you realize that I’ve put myself in a position where the only escape is death.” Kristen Hall You can say she was kidding, but I thought that was weird.
Put that together with – - -
“For every date you see on the tour page, there are 10-20 you don’t. That should give you an idea of how busy we have been.” Kristen Hall;
“My life in SugarLand is crazy and surreal.” Kristen Hall
Someone mentioned age and as the oldest member of the band without the outgoing personality of two dynamite performers already on stage, I always felt the trio would not last. Sexual orientation had nothing to do with it, IMO. I really believed the original press release about the downsizing. If there was a dispute over the ending of the band and who got what, I don’t know. Maybe Kristen thought “they’ll never survive without my talent” turned out wrong. I feel Kristian and Jen asked her to stay, as they didn’t have any idea either if they would continue to be successful if she left them hanging. So why take the chance? As it turned out perseverance won out on their part. If she had stayed with the band, the next couple of albums would have been totally different than what we’ve seen. If Kristen had remained would they still be popular or more or less popular, we’ll never know. Hey!!! I can live with what we have, a dynamite duo. Settle the lawsuit out of court and let them get on with their lives. I just feel more sorry for Kristen that she felt it necessary to rain on their parade at this time and place. Sounds like a bitter woman, during a bad moodswing, IMO.

I do not believe this

She not as attractive as other country singers

I’m not sure if we’ll ever know what really went down. It could have been a situation where Sugarland took off so fast and the woman got whiplash. Songwriters who aren’t used to performing tend to be a bit introverted, so that spotlight can be rattling. Remember Cyndi Thompson? She came onto the scene with “What I Really Meant to Say.” It was wildly popular. Within a year, the poor girl came out with a statement basically saying, “I just want to write songs” and she ran for the hills. She’s completely disappeared.

If Hall hasn’t received royalties from the songs on which she co-wrote, then absolutely take them all to court. That’s business. But if it’s a situation where she feels she deserves a piece of the continuing pie? That’s a different story.

One More Thing:
Why was John Rich Fired from Lonestar???

My understanding of the situation was that the band, as originally conceived, featured both Richie McDonald and John Rich trading off vocal duties.

By the time they had a couple albums under their belts, it was clear that Richie’s singles (such as No News, Say When, and Everything’s Changed) and had largely outperformed Rich’s; the only top-tier single I think Rich *might* have been lead on was Come Cryin’ to Me. It was certainly clear by then that McDonald’s more distinctive voice (and I hope not to fall afoul of any Rich partisans by making that observation) had become the one that casual fans expected to hear from the band.

Rich wanted equal time as vocalist; the rest of the band wanted to consolidate their image around what appeared to be the surer bet.

That was what *I* gathered, although at the time it was billed as a mutual parting of ways by all parties involved; I don’t know that any of the other contemporary members of Lonestar have commented on Rich’s claim that it was less than amicable.

Interestingly, the band’s first single after Rich’s departure was Saturday Night, from their third album Lonely Grill, a insipid clunker of a song that didn’t even make the top 40 and reportedly made the band fear for their record deal.

Their *next* single was a little ditty called Amazed. It was somewhat more successful.

Leeann, I just took a second listen to the song, and you’re obviously right. The confusion was due to an inability to remember a corresponding visual that would have made it clear (I don’t think there was a corresponding music video), a somewhat lower vocal part than was usual for Richie enforcing a slightly modified tone, and what seems to have been a pretty crappy audio version on Youtube that I used for “confirmation”.

I apologize for that inaccuracy, but I think the rest of my observations are in line with what the players have stated publicly.

John Rich sang on quite a few album tracks but “Heartbroke Every Day” was his only song to feature him on leads. It peaked in the Top 20 or 30. He was fired but it was a mutual agreement to go separate ways. He did, however write “Say When” and “Come Crying To Me”

It isn’t unacceptable at all, it’s business. Life is hard, and you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. But on the other hand, I definitely agree with you that she deserves her just fair if she had some sort of agreement with the band and they did not keep their end. More to her if she can bring it to the forefront and do everything in her power to stick it right back at them if they were stupid enough to not follow the agreement. You’ve got to look out for number 1.

Well, it looks like Sugarland may have been stopped from touring as there is NOTHING on their schedule, nor has there been anything for a while. I don’t think they would have no scheduled tours unless there was merit with the lawsuit that is unknown to the public at this point.

Well, that is just publicity as they are NOT touring currently, nor is anything listed on the CMT Sugarland Tour Schedule, or the “Official” Sugarland tour Schedule, except a gig in August, 2009…9 months away!

I guess you have to talk about up coming tours for publicity, if you have no current tours or anything happening to give you publicity.

Interesting, why would a Country Music Act be playing at a New Orleans Jazz Festival? Makes no sense.

So it’s Sunday Feb. 22, 2009 and I’ve spent the last hour or so reading all the comments. It’s truly fascinating. I thought I was pretty knowledgable about Sugarland but honestly had no idea Kristen was gay. Guess I wasn’t reading the right articles. It really makes no difference to me. Although I’m impressed that Kristen was the “brain child” behind the formation of the band, it’s been clear to me from three “listens” and two “views” of “Baby Girl” that Jennifer was, is, and always will be the “leader” of Sugarland. I wrongly predicted, as others have, that Jennifer would go solo within a year of that first release, but if you listen all the way through “Love On The Inside” it’s hard to hear Kristian Bush on more than a couple of tracks, excluding harmonies. My point being she already is a solo act. I’m not taking anything away from Kristian Bush. I think he loves the role he plays and why wouldn’t he. I love all of Sugarland’s songs and will continue to follow their paths. And for the record, Jennifer is HOT, HOT, HOT!!!!! In closing I do believe Kristen Hall is due her share from the early success but it seems clear that the current line up deserves everything they get in the future. Enjoy the day!

PS It’s funny to think of Jenn as hot. She once had a fan (who constantly told her to write a song for him) tell her that she’s not too pretty but not too ugly. For those of you who follow Jenn’s music, you know that she ultimately wrote a song for him.

She’s an attractive woman and the fame sphere has helped make her “hot” to the general public, but prior to fame, she was a cutie with a great personality.

Jennifer is HOTTTTTT!