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	<title>Comments on: Songwriting Doesn&#8217;t Come Easy For Trailblazing Lyle Lovett</title>
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	<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/</link>
	<description>The latest country music news and reviews.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris N.</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33252</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33252</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll just add that this is all a bit rich (get it?) coming from the guy who wrote &quot;Save a Horse (Ride a Cowboy).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll just add that this is all a bit rich (get it?) coming from the guy who wrote &#8220;Save a Horse (Ride a Cowboy).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: antonio</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33240</link>
		<dc:creator>antonio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33240</guid>
		<description>nature says homosexuality is ok, too.  it exists in many species.  look it up, folks.  unnatural?  no, not really.  perfectly normal, actually.  and very prevalent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nature says homosexuality is ok, too.  it exists in many species.  look it up, folks.  unnatural?  no, not really.  perfectly normal, actually.  and very prevalent.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris N.</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33239</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33239</guid>
		<description>Lot&#039;s daughters got him drunk, had sex with him and gave birth to his children -- and these were the only people God wanted to spare out of everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. So the Bible says incest is A-OK!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lot&#8217;s daughters got him drunk, had sex with him and gave birth to his children &#8212; and these were the only people God wanted to spare out of everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. So the Bible says incest is A-OK!</p>
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		<title>By: C. Eric Banister</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33232</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Eric Banister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33232</guid>
		<description>To understand the connection between why people lump homosexuality in with incest, beastiality and the like you have to go way back in religious history.  There is too much to go into in a comment, but essentially they were always lumped together because none of those relationships lead to procreation, offspring (other than incest, but there are other restrictions there).  In Hebrew scripture, and after that most of religious history, predominately Catholicism, the only reason for sexual contact was to produce offspring, this was God&#039;s intention according to early Hebrew teachings, thus a homosexual relationship was forbidden because it was more about pleasure than procreation.  There are a whole list of complications and sidetracks, but that&#039;s what is at the base of that belief.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To understand the connection between why people lump homosexuality in with incest, beastiality and the like you have to go way back in religious history.  There is too much to go into in a comment, but essentially they were always lumped together because none of those relationships lead to procreation, offspring (other than incest, but there are other restrictions there).  In Hebrew scripture, and after that most of religious history, predominately Catholicism, the only reason for sexual contact was to produce offspring, this was God&#8217;s intention according to early Hebrew teachings, thus a homosexual relationship was forbidden because it was more about pleasure than procreation.  There are a whole list of complications and sidetracks, but that&#8217;s what is at the base of that belief.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris N.</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33231</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33231</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s typical, really. Right-wingers have been in near-total control of the federal government and the public discourse for the last seven years, but have never stopped bitching and moaning about how oppressed they supposedly are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s typical, really. Right-wingers have been in near-total control of the federal government and the public discourse for the last seven years, but have never stopped bitching and moaning about how oppressed they supposedly are.</p>
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		<title>By: Onry &#38; Mean</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33229</link>
		<dc:creator>Onry &#38; Mean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33229</guid>
		<description>Well, one thing&#039;s certain, whether Rich is or isn&#039;t a bigot (and if we&#039;re not all prejudiced in one way or another, I&#039;ll eat my hat). John Rich just hit a homerun with much of his demographic (*83% of Protestants are against homosexual marriage). Strange that his comment would be branded radical, when *53% of Americans agree with him (*USA Today poll). I guess the other 47% are now somehow the mainstream. The math don&#039;t add up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, one thing&#8217;s certain, whether Rich is or isn&#8217;t a bigot (and if we&#8217;re not all prejudiced in one way or another, I&#8217;ll eat my hat). John Rich just hit a homerun with much of his demographic (*83% of Protestants are against homosexual marriage). Strange that his comment would be branded radical, when *53% of Americans agree with him (*USA Today poll). I guess the other 47% are now somehow the mainstream. The math don&#8217;t add up.</p>
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		<title>By: Baron Lane</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33156</link>
		<dc:creator>Baron Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33156</guid>
		<description>And here I just thought John Rich was a crap songwriter, seems he&#039;s a bigoted idiot to boot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And here I just thought John Rich was a crap songwriter, seems he&#8217;s a bigoted idiot to boot!</p>
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		<title>By: Brady Vercher</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33138</link>
		<dc:creator>Brady Vercher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33138</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t realize there were laws explicitly forbidding homosexuality, I only knew of laws against acts such as sodomy.

I didn&#039;t mean to imply that I thought bestiality and pedophilia were comparable or analogous to homosexual relationships. I don&#039;t follow your reasoning for incest, though. Stating that incest is more taboo doesn&#039;t prove anything. As for the generalness or specificness of the situation, the law says that a man can&#039;t marry any person in their family, not just a particular relative. The incest comparison does fall apart for me as well, though. I think laws should promote or protect the well being of society and I think it&#039;s in the best interest of society to not have &quot;&lt;em&gt;little guitar-playing kid[s] from &quot;Deliverance&quot;&lt;/em&gt;&quot; running around. I think it was a banjo instead of a guitar, but you get the point. The main thing that prevents them from being analogous is that the law bans any incestuous sexual relationship, not just incestuous marriages.

As for your last question, no, I don&#039;t think they&#039;re on par because of the reproduction factor, but if a partner in an incestuous relationship took surgical measures to prevent a pregnancy, I don&#039;t see how they couldn&#039;t be considered analogous. What about homosexual incestuous relationships or polygamous relationships?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t realize there were laws explicitly forbidding homosexuality, I only knew of laws against acts such as sodomy.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to imply that I thought bestiality and pedophilia were comparable or analogous to homosexual relationships. I don&#8217;t follow your reasoning for incest, though. Stating that incest is more taboo doesn&#8217;t prove anything. As for the generalness or specificness of the situation, the law says that a man can&#8217;t marry any person in their family, not just a particular relative. The incest comparison does fall apart for me as well, though. I think laws should promote or protect the well being of society and I think it&#8217;s in the best interest of society to not have &#8220;<em>little guitar-playing kid[s] from &#8220;Deliverance&#8221;</em>&#8221; running around. I think it was a banjo instead of a guitar, but you get the point. The main thing that prevents them from being analogous is that the law bans any incestuous sexual relationship, not just incestuous marriages.</p>
<p>As for your last question, no, I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re on par because of the reproduction factor, but if a partner in an incestuous relationship took surgical measures to prevent a pregnancy, I don&#8217;t see how they couldn&#8217;t be considered analogous. What about homosexual incestuous relationships or polygamous relationships?</p>
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		<title>By: Hollerin Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33131</link>
		<dc:creator>Hollerin Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33131</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to begin by stating that I did not make this a discussion on gay marriage, all I wanted to talk about was why John Rich shouldn&#039;t be allowed to speak in public. that being said.

Brady,

Point of fact, I agree with you 100% on the solution to this problem.  I think that &quot;marriage&quot; which is a religiously weighted term, and is most important in its religious sense, should be the possession of those to whom it is important, and that the legal/economic benefits should be distributed without prejudice.  which makes this little more than an intellectual fencing match on the details, but those are fun too.

&quot;If the same argument would have been used to criminalize homosexuality before it became prevalent, or at least more openly prevalent, would it have been valid?&quot;  - Both incest and homosexuality were criminalized and laws against both incest and homosexuality (though not enforced) are still on the books, so obviously laws against homosexuality have not stopped homosexuality. Furthermore, I am prepared to go out on a limb and say that though we have no hard statistics on the amount of Aunt/Nephew relationships, Homosexuality is far more common and homosexual relationships far outnumber nephew/aunt incest, and I will venture to say that the inability of Nephew/Aunt couples to marry is not what is keeping the number down.

&quot;Simply stating that they are not analogous doesn&#039;t make it so. If they aren&#039;t analogous, there has to be some valid reasoning to discredit the comparison&quot;
actually, I believe that the burden of proof is on you to say why they are comparable.  But here we go 
1.a man can&#039;t marry a child because a child is not a consenting adult, 

2.a man can&#039;t marry a fish because a fish is not a consenting adult, 

3. Incest is trickier.  First of all, both Incest and Homosexuality are taboo in some cultures, but Incest is MUCH MUCH more taboo, and the incest taboo is universal (though the definition of incest is not).  Also, lets look at how the definition of marriage impacts a gay guy and a guy who wants to marry his aunt.  For the gay guy, the law is saying that he can&#039;t marry anyone that he loves or is physically attracted to ever.  Any romantic relationship he has will not be afforded the status that Britney and K-Fed received, or that Pam Anderson and the guy from the Paris Hilton video are getting.  For the guy who wants to marry his aunt, the law only says that he can&#039;t marry THAT specific woman because she is a close relative, however, if he wants to enter into a legally recognized relationship with another female who is not related, then they will be happy to grant his request. So the difference is removing the opportunity for marriage in a general sense, and removing it in a specific sense. 
There, see, not analogous.

I can understand that a person may think homosexuality is unnatural or even wrong.  Such beliefs are often based on certain presuppositions that are neither provable nor unprovable and so long a logical line of thinking follows, I think that people are perfectly justified in holding those beliefs.

That being said, do you Brady Vercher, think that a gay person is on par with somebody who has sex with their sister/aunt/mother?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to begin by stating that I did not make this a discussion on gay marriage, all I wanted to talk about was why John Rich shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to speak in public. that being said.</p>
<p>Brady,</p>
<p>Point of fact, I agree with you 100% on the solution to this problem.  I think that &#8220;marriage&#8221; which is a religiously weighted term, and is most important in its religious sense, should be the possession of those to whom it is important, and that the legal/economic benefits should be distributed without prejudice.  which makes this little more than an intellectual fencing match on the details, but those are fun too.</p>
<p>&#8220;If the same argument would have been used to criminalize homosexuality before it became prevalent, or at least more openly prevalent, would it have been valid?&#8221;  &#8211; Both incest and homosexuality were criminalized and laws against both incest and homosexuality (though not enforced) are still on the books, so obviously laws against homosexuality have not stopped homosexuality. Furthermore, I am prepared to go out on a limb and say that though we have no hard statistics on the amount of Aunt/Nephew relationships, Homosexuality is far more common and homosexual relationships far outnumber nephew/aunt incest, and I will venture to say that the inability of Nephew/Aunt couples to marry is not what is keeping the number down.</p>
<p>&#8220;Simply stating that they are not analogous doesn&#8217;t make it so. If they aren&#8217;t analogous, there has to be some valid reasoning to discredit the comparison&#8221;<br />
actually, I believe that the burden of proof is on you to say why they are comparable.  But here we go<br />
1.a man can&#8217;t marry a child because a child is not a consenting adult, </p>
<p>2.a man can&#8217;t marry a fish because a fish is not a consenting adult, </p>
<p>3. Incest is trickier.  First of all, both Incest and Homosexuality are taboo in some cultures, but Incest is MUCH MUCH more taboo, and the incest taboo is universal (though the definition of incest is not).  Also, lets look at how the definition of marriage impacts a gay guy and a guy who wants to marry his aunt.  For the gay guy, the law is saying that he can&#8217;t marry anyone that he loves or is physically attracted to ever.  Any romantic relationship he has will not be afforded the status that Britney and K-Fed received, or that Pam Anderson and the guy from the Paris Hilton video are getting.  For the guy who wants to marry his aunt, the law only says that he can&#8217;t marry THAT specific woman because she is a close relative, however, if he wants to enter into a legally recognized relationship with another female who is not related, then they will be happy to grant his request. So the difference is removing the opportunity for marriage in a general sense, and removing it in a specific sense.<br />
There, see, not analogous.</p>
<p>I can understand that a person may think homosexuality is unnatural or even wrong.  Such beliefs are often based on certain presuppositions that are neither provable nor unprovable and so long a logical line of thinking follows, I think that people are perfectly justified in holding those beliefs.</p>
<p>That being said, do you Brady Vercher, think that a gay person is on par with somebody who has sex with their sister/aunt/mother?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt C.</title>
		<link>http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33130</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.the9513.com/songwriting-doesnt-come-easy-for-trailblazing-lyle-lovett/#comment-33130</guid>
		<description>Bestiality and pedophilia aren&#039;t analogous to gay marriage because in those situations you can&#039;t have two consenting partners. However, consensual incest/consanguineous relationships or other things like polygamy are certainly analogous to gay marriage. That&#039;s why I have no problem with what Rich said.

I don&#039;t think that whether homosexuality is voluntary is relevant. Personally I don&#039;t believe that one chooses to have homosexual feelings. Nonetheless, entering into a relationship with another person - regardless of their gender - is a choice, even if that choice is influenced by biology. Furthermore, there&#039;s more scientific evidence to support genetic predisposition to things like alcoholism than there is for homosexuality, but there&#039;s no movement to abolish drunk driving laws for people for whom drinking is not a &quot;choice.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bestiality and pedophilia aren&#8217;t analogous to gay marriage because in those situations you can&#8217;t have two consenting partners. However, consensual incest/consanguineous relationships or other things like polygamy are certainly analogous to gay marriage. That&#8217;s why I have no problem with what Rich said.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that whether homosexuality is voluntary is relevant. Personally I don&#8217;t believe that one chooses to have homosexual feelings. Nonetheless, entering into a relationship with another person &#8211; regardless of their gender &#8211; is a choice, even if that choice is influenced by biology. Furthermore, there&#8217;s more scientific evidence to support genetic predisposition to things like alcoholism than there is for homosexuality, but there&#8217;s no movement to abolish drunk driving laws for people for whom drinking is not a &#8220;choice.&#8221;</p>
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