Introducing Joey + Rory: “Like Two Names Carved in an Oak Tree”

JM: What would you say was the most difficult part about being on Can You Duet?

RORY: There were a couple of difficult parts–one was that it was just so not what we’re about. For us to be in the middle of it, and to allow ourselves to be in the middle of it, was scary. It was just so kind of anti what we do. That was part of it. But I think the toughest part of all was that what we do best, we didn’t get to do at all. I mean, for one week we got to sing an original song. But what we do best is sing our songs–“Sweet Emmylou” and all these other things we had written and worked on that were important, and that said things, and that had a style and a personality.

So what was probably toughest was week after week competing doing a bunch of cover songs from a list that we didn’t even want to be doing and that didn’t really represent us. But, at the same point, if we could get through that and turn it into something, then we’d get an opportunity, potentially, to be able to do it the way we wanted to.

JM: On The Life of a Song, your debut record, you have an rather unique cover of an iconic American song. So, I have to know–when you guys do your waltz version of “Freebird” live, do you include a five minute guitar solo?

JOEY: Rory’s good, but he ain’t that good.

RORY: We’re always playin’ it by ourselves so far ‘cause we don’t have a band, so we’ve got about a five second guitar solo, and that pretty much covers all of my skills. We concentrate on our strengths, so as quick as we can get back to Joey’s singin’, we get back to it.

JOEY: Oh man…

JM: You guys begin the record by pleading, to someone, to “…just play the song.” I was curious, as I listened to that, about who that sentiment is directed at. Are you talking to radio? The industry? Critics like me?

RORY: Well, we’re definitely not talking to critics like you. But if we’re on a radio show, we’re definitely not talking to radio.

You know what, it’s a lot of different things, but that was really written more from a songwriter’s viewpoint, and it’s a conglomeration of a bunch of different things. You know, it’s the record labels are over thinking everything, and they’re blaming it on the radio people because radio is over thinking everything, and all that sort of stuff. So I think it’s a little bit of everything. I’d say, honestly, if it were pointed more at something, it would actually be more at the industry–the recording part of it, which is the record labels.

Because that’s kinda where it begins. There are a lot of great songs out there, and more often than not–and you ask any great songwriter, and they’re not even talking about their songs–most of the greatest great songs never actually get a chance because they [the labels] are just concentrating on radio friendly, or whatever their catch phrase is at the moment. So I think that’s really where it all stems from. And there are problems outside of that, but it’s probably directed more there.

JM: Joey, that leads into a question that I wanted to ask you. In the submission video you sent in to Can You Duet, you said that some of Rory’s best songs hadn’t been heard yet. Why do you think that is? It’s a sentiment that I hear from songwriters all the time–as Rory just alluded to–that they have this catalog full of fantastic material, but that they have to write more commercialized or “poppy” songs just to keep the bills paid.

JOEY: I don’t know if there’s a quick answer or an easy answer for that. In my opinion, what Rory does best is storytelling. We’re very faith-filled people, and so he tends to write about faith–in a lot of subtlety. I mean, nothing is ever thrown at you or preachy, but what he writes best, in my opinion, and what touches me the most, are his story songs. So much of the time it’s not embraced as much as the bubblegum or the pop, or just the easy flowing, not real deep songs, would be on radio.

I fell in love with Rory because of his music and because of what he wrote about–what he was as a man and as a person. And if he wasn’t quite there, he sure fooled me in his songwriting. So that’s why I really believe that his best songs–like a song called “Mild Man,” or “Bible And a Belt”–I mean, they say something that maybe people don’t really want to hear. And so–

RORY: –“People” meaning at record labels, or whatever, not that people don’t want to hear.

JOEY: Yeah, not the consumer or the listener. But I think the record labels, maybe it scares them because they’re afraid that it might be too much of one thing or the other. And so they won’t give that song a shot to be heard.

RORY: I think, on my end, it is some of that stuff, just when it comes down to business. The business is built on, they see lightning strike somewhere and then they all run to that spot and spend all their time trying to make lightning strike doing the exact same thing. And then it strikes somewhere else. And they don’t–I just think it’s built wrong, in a lot of ways, and so what’s really popular is all that they’re really interested in. You know, even if our listener is a 38-year-old female, they’re trying so hard to woo in all the young, cool people that they just ignore our real listener a lot of the time and alienate them. And they make it so glamorous–and no one can even actually relate to it. And so the songs end up being a little too much that way.

You know, we’re real opinionated, so that’s just our opinion. And, honestly, we love country music–you know, the country kind of country music. And that’s not necessarily in vogue right now. And so that’s probably another reason why I don’t get as many songs recorded–‘cause I’m not a pop songwriter.

JM: Two questions I would ask you, then: First, do you feel like an outsider within the Nashville songwriting community because you’re not a pop songwriter? And, second, do you feel like you were able to actually make a country record? Is The Life of a Song a country kind of country record?

RORY: As far as not getting songs recorded, or do I feel like I have to mold to something, I’m not good at molding to anything anyway, but it doesn’t really matter. I just do what I do, and I feel fortunate to get any songs recorded. And I’m not complaining about the songs I’m getting recorded, because there are a lot of people who have had less success and less luck than I’ve had. So it’s not really complaining. But, at the same point, it is frustrating, because what I do best…it might get overlooked a lot of the time.

But it’s all a process, and honestly I think now that we’re doing this, it’s fascinating and really, really exciting for us because there is no one telling us what we can or can’t do. We can put out a song about a white trash ho, and we can turn around and sing, and title our album, “The Life of a Song,” about great songs and how they can affect people. And we can do anything in between all of that stuff.

Did we get to make the album that we wanted to make? We got to make the album that everybody wants to make. In my opinion, it’s really special, and there are a lot of great songs on it. Some of ‘em we wrote, but some of the best ones are things that we didn’t write, that we just found from other people. And they’re fabulous. So, if this record isn’t great, it’s one hundred percent our fault, because it’s what we wanted to do exactly.

JM: I couldn’t help but notice that you just mentioned white trash hos. “Cheater Cheater” isn’t exactly politically correct–well, let’s say that it’s not as sanitized as what we’re used to hearing on country radio, which ties into what we were talking about earlier with “Play The Song.” Has there been any negative backlash to the tone of the single?

RORY: Well, there’s been just a…not very much. It’s almost been completely positive. Actually a lot less backlash than I thought there would be. There have been a few casualties. We’re in Boston right now, and we heard, through our promotion people, that the big station up here ain’t ever ever ever ever ever gonna play it. And maybe so. That’s ok. If you stand by your convictions, that’s fine by us.

Besides the Overstock.com people, we had another huge company basically talking to us recently about doing a big endorsement thing where we would do a national AD campaign for them. And they backed out–we just found out two days ago–because of the line “White trash ho.” And so, yeah, there’s been a little backlash. But you know what, we’re just trying to be real. We’ve got some great songs about love and faith and life and family, and that’s so, so important to us. But it’s also important to be real, and I can tell ‘ya, if you got Joey fired up, and she were in that situation [like the woman in the song], that’s exactly how she’d call it. And she wants to be able to not have to over think it. She doesn’t want to have to edit it. She just wants to be able to be honest. And that’s a big amen from me, so…

We don’t expect everybody to love it. But we think a lot of people are going to.

JM: Since we’re talking about country music and country country music, let me go ahead and ask you–what is country music?

RORY: Just, what is country music?

JM: What is it.

RORY: Uh, hun, do you wanna start?

JOEY: Hmm…you go, I guess.

[Laughter]

RORY: I could see in her eyes right away she was not gonna take that question before I did.

JOEY: That’s a deep question. I mean, I guess it’s deep but it’s not.

RORY: Well, it doesn’t have to be.

JM: That’s why it’s tricky. I have to keep you on your toes.

JOEY: You’re doin’ a good job, man.

RORY: To me, I think country music is real life. It’s conversation, people talkin’ across the fence from one yard to another. Talkin’ about the things that matter to them, whether that’s love or life or politics or faith, or whatever it is. Country music is a piece of America–the musical piece of America that we all need to keep us going.

JOEY: Country music, to me, just in terms of how it influenced me as a little girl, I think country music is stories. It’s what touches people and what impacts them. And to me, it was a healing tool–if I was upset or hurting or sad, I’d go out and get on my horse and sing country songs, ‘cause I’d cry through ‘em, but then after I got done crying I felt so much better. And I still feel that way. I dig out those Emmylou records, those Dolly records, and have me a good cry and I feel better. So to me, country music is healing.

JM: Joey, you were at Sony a while back, is that right?

JOEY: I was. That was about six years ago.

JM: What went wrong at Sony?

JOEY: My experience at Sony was–well, Paul Worley signed me to a production deal. Billy Crane, the songwriter, found me and took me to Paul, and Paul loved what I was doing. At the time, Paul had his own record production thing goin’ on. He was stepping away from Sony. He sent me to Sony though, and Sony signed me on the spot. We went in and cut a record–we cut five sides–and then, as we were gathering more songs, in the meantime Rory and I got married.

I came to Sony unattached and single, and when I turned my record in, I was married. And, honestly, part of the reason it went bad was because they didn’t like the concept of me being married. I was no longer a single, available woman, and they thought that was a hindrance to my career. And any time I would ask any kind of questions–they had a problem with me asking questions.

I said, “I’m going to be going out on a radio tour, why can’t my husband come out on the road and play guitar for me?” And that was just a problem. I wasn’t allowed to ask questions, so I really didn’t have a whole lot of relationships with some of the people that were there. And then, in the end, at about the same time the whole label was kinda going through a whole regime change and some of the main people were let go. And I was just one of the artists that got weeded out.

I actually kinda made that call. They said, you know, you have a choice here–you have your career or you have your marriage. And I said, “Well, I only get one marriage in this lifetime. And I choose my marriage over anything.”

You know, at the time, I thought that was my chance. I was 26. That was my chance, and it was gone. But I knew I had made the right decision and that God would bless me in the end, somehow. I had no idea it would be in this way. And, gosh you know, it was just an experience that was very hard at the time, but I’m so pleased and so glad that, on the other side of that, this is what God had in store.

RORY: That first year was really hard on her and hard on our marriage. It was hard on Joey for a good little while because those kinds of opportunities don’t come around…for most people, they never come around. So, if it came around and then it doesn’t work out, you can almost guarantee that it won’t come around again. It was really hard for her to think that maybe she was going to lose that.

We did independently keep working on music, and just developing it and believing in it, and we never stopped believing in it and in the fact that God had given her this gift for a reason, this great voice and being so pretty and wonderful.

But it’s especially ironic that now it’s such an extreme the other way–they wouldn’t even let her ask a question about her husband being able to play guitar, or anything simple, you know, and that was a deal breaker. And now, it’s the whole reason there’s a deal–because we’re together and it makes us unique. And I can guarantee we never saw that coming. When Joey had that deal she was 26. She’s 33 now. I’m 43. We’re way past…I mean, the record deal police are gonna come get us any minute, ‘cause this is not possible. You can’t be a husband and wife, you can’t be this age.

We just sit back and are in awe of the possibilities and we’re thankful that we’re here.

JM: So is this the endgame for you? Will you always be Joey + Rory? Or will there be a Joey record, or a Rory record?

RORY: I think we’ll always be Joey + Rory because that’s what got us here, and we love it. But, we actually have talked to our label about doing a Rory + Joey record. It’d still be Joey + Rory and we’d title it Rory + Joey, and it’d be songs that I would sing and Joey would sing harmony for me.

We could have easily split the record in half this time, but this feels right. This feels like the way we’re gonna go. And we don’t worry, we’re not concerned at all about that stuff. When we play shows I sing lots of songs–funny songs and hit songs and whatever. We’re just a husband and wife and who knows. I’d just like to think we’re gonna be able to make a little bit of an impact with this record, and if we do, then we get to make another one someday.

JOEY: A lot of people on the show, even the judges, would ask, “Rory, are you ever gonna step up to the mic and sing some lead?” And, you know, we made that call, that we really didn’t know when the next opportunity would be, if we’d get booted off that show or not, so we just kinda kept goin’ with the momentum that we had, which was me singing the lead. But in our live shows, I mean–not only is Rory an incredible songwriter, he’s a wonderful singer as well. So, definitely, in the future, if we get a future with another album, we will be highlighting Rory. Maybe just do a Rory CD. Rory and Joey.

JM: I’ve read quite a bit about the first time Joey saw you, Rory, when she came to that songwriters night at the Bluebird and fell in love. But what was going through your mind the first time you saw Joey? What do you remember from that moment?

RORY: I kinda remember seeing her at the Bluebird…sort of. But I only remember it because of this girl Joey…I think it was around the time that Joey from…what was that TV show?

JOEY: Dawson’s Creek?

RORY: Dawson’s Creek, yeah. That was on TV then, and there was this girl named Joey. So I think I kinda remember that she was actually there, with a friend of ours, Keith Anderson, who’s a buddy of mine. I think I remember that he had brought her there to see us play. But I don’t really know if I actually remember that at all, or if I’m just making it up after the fact. But the name Joey definitely sticks out.

Anyway, it’s a long story to get there, but she shows up at this other writers night three years later. I’ve put it on in this little town where my office is–I’ve decided to write far away from Nashville, to just pull a Norman Rockwell and write where the people are. So I’m out there and I’m writing songs, and someone asked me to put together a writers night, like a ‘Bluebird south’ every week or every two weeks, I can’t remember how it was.

So I did, and it’s in this room upstairs. And at the very first one, Joey comes bounding up the steps right before it starts, and I’m standing there and she lands right in front of me. I’m the only one up there at that point, and I thought to myself, wow–she was awful beautiful to be that far away from Green Hills. She’s lost!

But I said “Hi” to her and introduced myself, and I think she said that she’d seen me play or something, and somehow we talked for just a second or so about the music business. Then she went and sat down. Her mom and another friend of hers was in town, so they all sat down and watched the show. And I remember exactly where she sat, and I remember watching her…and she was so pretty.

The next week, she came back again. I used to invite everyone, after the show, back to this little hardware store where I’d put my songwriting office, and she came over that night. A whole bunch of people were over there, but she and I talked for a second and I asked her, ‘cause I heard she had a record deal, if I could pitch her some songs.

She gave me a number to call, and a couple days later I left her a message. She called me back and left me a message saying, “Here’s my P.O. box–you can mail ‘em to me.” And the one thing that was clear was that she was very distant from me. Both those times, when she came to those writers nights, she was very cold and distant. So I was real clear on what kind of impact I made on her, which was none.

But I was in the studio a few days after that, and my buddy Tim Johnson walked in, and he said, “I got two words for you: Joey Martin.”

And I said, “That girl hates me, she’s so cold to me!”

“Well,” Tim said, “all I know is that when me and Megan gave her a ride back to her truck after the show last weekend, she asked if you were dating somebody, or if the girl you were dating was very serious.”

So, I thought I’d call her one more time. I left another message and said that I’d be home at nine. I gave her my home number and told her she was welcome to call me.

She did call me, and the very first conversation we ever really had, I was sitting on the couch in our little farm house where we live now, and the kids were asleep, and the very first thing she said to me was, “I want to tell you why I’ve been distant to you when you’ve seen me both those other times. I saw you play at a writers night a couple of years ago, and I knew, right then and there, that you were the person I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life with. I loved everything about you. Everything you said, everything you wrote. How you…everything. But your daughters were there that night, and you introduced them halfway through the show, and I thought to myself, all the good ones are gone.”

But then, a couple of weeks prior to that conversation, she said, one of the Doctors she worked with at the vet clinic told her about this writers night he was going to–with Tim Johnson and this guy named Rory Feek. And she told the doctor, “That’s the guy I was going to marry.” And she told him that story and said that if it wasn’t for him–meaning me–that she’d already have been married and having kids. “He was gonna be my guy,” she told the doctor.

“Rory’s not married,” the doctor said. “He’s been a single father for twelve years.”

She told me she had shown up at the writers night just to see if those feelings were still there. And what she said on the phone was that they were still there. “That’s why I’m distant from you,” she said, “Because in the last year and a half I’ve been dating a different guy, and it’s been pretty serious, and I would never want to do anything wrong. Just because those feelings are so strong, that’s why I’ve been cold to you.”

So she was telling me this, and I was sitting there on the couch, and it was just kind of a surreal moment. I’ve heard about love at first sight, or magic love, and I’ve written lots of songs about it, but I can guarantee you, I had never lived it. I never thought it was really possible until then. And our story just took off from there.

Free Download: Joey + Rory’s Debut Single, “Cheater Cheater,” courtesy of Sugar Hill Records.

• “Cheater Cheater” (Download — 3.5 MB)

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