Thoughts about Carrie Underwood and vocals in general

[Rainbow]

Even though I have expressed my dislike of Carrie Underwood, this is not a thread to flame her. I'd like to discuss her vocals, because I actually do like them. But what I don't like is that they're being praised as the second coming, and many seem genuinely convinced that she's the best vocalist in country.
My two biggest complaints about her as a vocalist is that she is the queen of oversinging, and that her voice, while technically close to "flawless", is pretty indistinguishable from others. If there are any "closeted" Carrie fans on this board, I'd like them to compare these two videos, one of Carrie's song "Just A Dream" (A song I happen to like alot), and one of LeAnn Rimes' song "Strong", from her "Whatever We Wanna" album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M4G1LyQQRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbrnl3ZAlA

My point with this? LeAnn Rimes started out with a great voice, and has evolved into one of the strongest vocalists in the biz, yet she never gets any credit for it, because it's always Carrie this and Carrie that. She is competent, I'd even call her a very good vocalist. But her vocals are severely over-rated at this stage.

My rant is done.

[Razor X]

I pretty much agree with you. I think she's got talent. She does have a tendency to oversing, which I really find annoying, and her material has been pretty awful, IMO. I think she would probably have been a better artist had she been able to develop her sound, style, etc., without the spotlight of American Idol. I find it irritating that people act like she's the be-all and end-all of female country vocalists. I just don't see her as being head and shoulders above McEntire, McBride, and Yearwood.

[Rainbow]

I pretty much agree with you. I think she's got talent. She does have a tendency to oversing, which I really find annoying, and her material has been pretty awful, IMO. I think she would probably have been a better artist had she been able to develop her sound, style, etc., without the spotlight of American Idol. I find it irritating that people act like she's the be-all and end-all of female country vocalists. I just don't see her as being head and shoulders above McEntire, McBride, and Yearwood.

I agree. If she could develop a style to distinguish herself from the rest of the pack, stop oversinging, and more importatly, get some decent material, I think she could be a great artist.

[JR Journey]

I agree. If she could develop a style to distinguish herself from the rest of the pack, stop oversinging, and more importatly, get some decent material, I think she could be a great artist.

I was gonna comment, but you did for me, Rainbow. I will stress that Carrie's material - or lack thereof - has been the one factor that's stopped me from really jumping on her bandwagon.

[Occasional Hope]

I've been listening to a few of her live performances via youtube, and it's confirmed waht I remeber from her Idol run. There are two things I don't care for about Carrie's voice; one is the much-mentioned tendency to oversing, which has been exacerbated on her records by the producer's abetting her and over-producing it as well, she may feel she has to oversing to compete with all that backing. Just A Dream, for instance, is almost unlistenable for me in its recorded version, but live and acoustic it regains its intrinsic power. The other thing is that she is sometimes a bit shrill-sounding to me at the top end of her range. I do think she has some talent, if she would tone down her approach.

Incidentally, although it's only a year since Carnival Ride came out, sales have slowed down so much, and I think she's already pulled four singles off it, so I wouldn't be surprised to see her go back in the studio soon, even though she's still getting a lot of radio success from it. It will be interesting to see what approach they take this time, although I'm not inclined to be too optimistic. The massive commercial success of the first album must have allowed her a lot of freedom on making Carnival Ride, so one must assume that was the record she actually wanted to make.

My favourite vocal performance of Carrie's is the version of Roy Orbison's Crying which she did on Idol. She's never produced anything else that's worked as well for me, which is disappointing. It's available on youtube if anyone's interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUc7jQje6ZU .

[Chris D]

I love her voice more on the two charity singles for idol gives back, more notably "I'll Stand By You".

Also, she's at least picking material for her album because I heard last month that she had out a song on hold because the writer's myspace page had announced it.

With better material she could be so much better than she is now.

[JR Journey]

I think 'oversinging' gets a bad rep really. When a vocal is just right for a song, there is no such thing. Miss Reba was frequently accused of this in the 90s. (Think: Starting Over) But to me, a world-class vocalist belting it out is not oversinging - she is emoting. The main difference between a voice like Reba's and a voice like Carrie's is the recognizability factor. Carrie has nothing about her vocals that demands your attention - and she is lost in a vast sea of the other 'shrieking divas' on country radio. Think about flipping through your radio buttons in your car. You hear part of a Reba song on one station, you immediately know who's singing even if you don't know the song. On the next station comes 'Two Sparrows In A Hurricane'. Again, you instantly know who's singing to you. Station three is playing 'All American Girl'. Now, if you aren't very familiar with Carrie Underwood, you might well deduce that it's Kellie Pickler, Sara Evans, Faith Hill, or any number of these cookie-cutter voices coming from Nashville today.

So, give me a vocalist with their own unique style and approach to a tune, and she can hold out every note for 15 seconds if she wants to.
I'll use this as my example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX23JJ53vNU

[Rainbow]

I think 'oversinging' gets a bad rep really. When a vocal is just right for a song, there is no such thing. Miss Reba was frequently accused of this in the 90s. (Think: Starting Over) But to me, a world-class vocalist belting it out is not oversinging - she is emoting. The main difference between a voice like Reba's and a voice like Carrie's is the recognizability factor. Carrie has nothing about her vocals that demands your attention - and she is lost in a vast sea of the other 'shrieking divas' on country radio. Think about flipping through your radio buttons in your car. You hear part of a Reba song on one station, you immediately know who's singing even if you don't know the song. On the next station comes 'Two Sparrows In A Hurricane'. Again, you instantly know who's singing to you. Station three is playing 'All American Girl'. Now, if you aren't very familiar with Carrie Underwood, you might well deduce that it's Kellie Pickler, Sara Evans, Faith Hill, or any number of these cookie-cutter voices coming from Nashville today.

So, give me a vocalist with their own unique style and approach to a tune, and she can hold out every note for 15 seconds if she wants to.
I'll use this as my example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX23JJ53vNU

I agreed with you til I read the part about Sara Evans and Faith Hill.

BTW, I just came across this live performance by Faith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w47LOM5h ... re=related

I love it. One of the best live performances by her.

[Occasional Hope]

I love her voice more on the two charity singles for idol gives back, more notably "I'll Stand By You".

Also, she's at least picking material for her album because I heard last month that she had out a song on hold because the writer's myspace page had announced it.

With better material she could be so much better than she is now.

How very true. I thought I'll Stand By You sounded more country than anything on Carnival Ride, even her version of the Randy Travis cover, even though it's not a country song.

[Razor X]

With respect to the oversinging , others -- namely Reba and Martina -- have been accused of this in the past, but unlike Carrie, they have managed to do it without sounding like they are screaming.

And with respect to Carrie being given the freedom to make the album she wanted (Carnival Ride) after the success of the first one, that may very well be the case, but a huge commercial success like Some Hearts creates an enormous amount of pressure to have the same level of success the next time around. And that tends to stifle creativity since everyone is afraid to tinker with a successful formula. For that reason, I don't have much hope that the next album will be any better than the first two, despite all the promises we keep hearing from Carrie's fans that "one day" she will produce a masterpiece.

[JR Journey]

With respect to the oversinging , others -- namely Reba and Martina -- have been accused of this in the past, but unlike Carrie, they have managed to do it without sounding like they are screaming.

Have you ever saw Martina live? I was a huge, HUGE Martina fan up 'til I saw her opening for Reba during the Girl's Night Out Tour in Cincinnati in 2001. It seemed like the only way she could hit her notes, most notably on 'A Broken Wing' was to stand back from the mic and bellow. I mean, really hog-calling screams. So, I really cooled on her voice at that point. I still love Martina - her Evolution album is brilliant. But vocally, she just doesn't send me like she once did.

As for Faith, I really like her voice. I just think she lets it get lost in the production too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuvDbz4s--o

[indulgedcountrymusic]

@JR Journey: Sara Evans? a cookie-cutter artist? Ha! Not a chance

Anyways, I love Carrie's vocals, they are very good But, I agree that she oversings sometimes - the song "Last Name" is a prime example... it is constantly in-your-face over-the-top vocal, to the point that her live performances of it leave her gasping for breath as she attempts to belt out its final minute -- "Just a Dream" is quite good, but I think the problem there is not her voice, but the backing sounds and stuff

She doesn't over-sing, IMO, on "Jesus, Take the Wheel" for example -- sometimes she does, sometimes not

[Occasional Hope]

She doesn't over-sing, IMO, on "Jesus, Take the Wheel" for example -- sometimes she does, sometimes not

The oversinging isn't nearly as bad on the first album, which is poppy but mostly good of its kind. Ain't In Checotah Anymore is even quite country. But the only tracks I can stand on Carnival Ride are Flat On The Floor (where the heavy production actually works with the song rather than crushing it totally) and I Told You So (which pales in comparison to the original but is a blessed relief compared to the rest of the album it's on).

[Stormy]

Carrie Underwood doesn't have a bad voice she just doesn't know how to use the voice she has. Faith has the same problem as does Leeann Rimes and to an extent most pop voiced singers on country radio right now. Its as though, having figures out how to do loud, they stopped trying to think of anything else. It leaves an emotional hole in the music and often times rings quite false in the song--most notably when Carrie Underwood build to a quite triaumphant scream in the chorus of I Told You So which convienantly forgets that she is the listener and not the speaker in the song and that she is singing about the worst case scenario the protagionist could imagine. Not only that, but because the quite parts of the songs don't have any other glitter to make them interesting whole songs stay loud which render them white noise.

Contrast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_LSMYUVk4&feature=related. Kasey is someone who really can't do loud. She goes as far as she can in this song, but that's still quite shy of a glory note. As such, she had to find a way to covey the emotion of the line that relies on emotion rather than volume. The more painful and plantive lines of the song, "would you stay with me a while, before I fall alseep" are delivered in a mere murmer which not only allows her room to build for contrast within the song, it undercores the painful embarrassment of having to ask a lover to stay at least long enough to pretend until you wake that he is going to stay the night.

[Rainbow]

Carrie Underwood doesn't have a bad voice she just doesn't know how to use the voice she has. Faith has the same problem as does Leeann Rimes and to an extent most pop voiced singers on country radio right now. Its as though, having figures out how to do loud, they stopped trying to think of anything else. It leaves an emotional hole in the music and often times rings quite false in the song--most notably when Carrie Underwood build to a quite triaumphant scream in the chorus of I Told You So which convienantly forgets that she is the listener and not the speaker in the song and that she is singing about the worst case scenario the protagionist could imagine. Not only that, but because the quite parts of the songs don't have any other glitter to make them interesting whole songs stay loud which render them white noise.

Contrast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_LSMYUVk4&feature=related. Kasey is someone who really can't do loud. She goes as far as she can in this song, but that's still quite shy of a glory note. As such, she had to find a way to covey the emotion of the line that relies on emotion rather than volume. The more painful and plantive lines of the song, "would you stay with me a while, before I fall alseep" are delivered in a mere murmer which not only allows her room to build for contrast within the song, it undercores the painful embarrassment of having to ask a lover to stay at least long enough to pretend until you wake that he is going to stay the night.

I never felt Faith was one to do much oversinging, it's the quality of the songs that's sometimes questionable. But when she gets it right, she really gets it right, even if it is a pop song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6aohzcm ... re=related

[scooter]

I agree that carrie's biggest problem is material. I saw her in concert recently and was completely blown away with how powerful her voice is. I always viewed LeAnn as a someone who got lucky as a kid and then drifted into a lackluster career as an adult. Then I started downloading a bunch of leann's songs, and I have to say that her cd is almost always in my player. Ive turned into a big fan of leann- but just like carrie, you have to really pick and choose her songs.

[Stormy]

Randy Travis didn't have a hard time with his material when it included I Told You So.

[Chris D]

I agree that carrie's biggest problem is material. I saw her in concert recently and was completely blown away with how powerful her voice is. I always viewed LeAnn as a someone who got lucky as a kid and then drifted into a lackluster career as an adult. Then I started downloading a bunch of leann's songs, and I have to say that her cd is almost always in my player. Ive turned into a big fan of leann- but just like carrie, you have to really pick and choose her songs.

Except for Leann's most recent album, and the one before that to an extant (Family and This Woman, respectively), they are both great material. Her voice and the songs on Family are some of my favorite songs ever, such as "Pretty Things", "What I Cannot Change", and "Nothin' Better To Do".

[Stormy]

Carrie Underwood doesn't have a bad voice she just doesn't know how to use the voice she has. Faith has the same problem as does Leeann Rimes and to an extent most pop voiced singers on country radio right now. Its as though, having figures out how to do loud, they stopped trying to think of anything else. It leaves an emotional hole in the music and often times rings quite false in the song--most notably when Carrie Underwood build to a quite triaumphant scream in the chorus of I Told You So which convienantly forgets that she is the listener and not the speaker in the song and that she is singing about the worst case scenario the protagionist could imagine. Not only that, but because the quite parts of the songs don't have any other glitter to make them interesting whole songs stay loud which render them white noise.

Contrast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0_LSMYUVk4&feature=related. Kasey is someone who really can't do loud. She goes as far as she can in this song, but that's still quite shy of a glory note. As such, she had to find a way to covey the emotion of the line that relies on emotion rather than volume. The more painful and plantive lines of the song, "would you stay with me a while, before I fall alseep" are delivered in a mere murmer which not only allows her room to build for contrast within the song, it undercores the painful embarrassment of having to ask a lover to stay at least long enough to pretend until you wake that he is going to stay the night.

I never felt Faith was one to do much oversinging, it's the quality of the songs that's sometimes questionable. But when she gets it right, she really gets it right, even if it is a pop song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6aohzcm ... re=related

But she rarely gets it right emotionally. She was the one who decided that the line "you know I cry all the time" should be delivered like a Pepsi jingle.

[Matt B]

With respect to the oversinging , others -- namely Reba and Martina -- have been accused of this in the past, but unlike Carrie, they have managed to do it without sounding like they are screaming.

Have you ever saw Martina live? I was a huge, HUGE Martina fan up 'til I saw her opening for Reba during the Girl's Night Out Tour in Cincinnati in 2001. It seemed like the only way she could hit her notes, most notably on 'A Broken Wing' was to stand back from the mic and bellow. I mean, really hog-calling screams. So, I really cooled on her voice at that point. I still love Martina - her Evolution album is brilliant. But vocally, she just doesn't send me like she once did.

As for Faith, I really like her voice. I just think she lets it get lost in the production too much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuvDbz4s--o

I disagree with the martina thing. She backs from the mic to showcase that vocal power. I saw her when "Where Would You Be" was a big hit and after singing "Broken Wing" and all of her other big-voiced hits, she didn't sing the current single and I understood why. Too many of those songs ruin a singer's voice. That's my biggest problem with "big voiced" singers and their labels; sometimes the label won't release a song that allows them to 'relax.' But since the artist helps to choose these big songs, they should know to not record too many as they are the biggest way to vocal problems.