Comments on: Don’t Make Gretchen Wilson Take Her Earrings Out

By: john smith

john smith — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:20:04 +0000

You guys & girls are arguing over urbans music not being “country” , I got one better for yall, Sheila E the drummer from some crappy group from the 80’s trying to sing a country song . Uhg . I saw the vid on CMT & felt like pulling my eyes & ears off. Now that’s a valid argument. She just plain sucks and shouldn’t be trying to be a country singer …

By: Stormy

Stormy — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:06:44 +0000

“What I’ve always wanted is that when people ask ‘What music do you play?’ and I say, ‘Country music,’ they say: ‘Oh, yeah? What kind?’ ”

He’s probably less fond when people follow that up with “Oh, you mean the kind that sucks.”

By: Kelly

Kelly — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 23:12:49 +0000

Thats fine, Jon, I would suggest that much of your argument shares the same belligerent and incoherent qualities that you say mine has contained. As I have now said many times, I fully recognize the many forms of country, even if I am at times confused by some of the alleged definitions. You obviously choose to ignore much of my comments content, and I guess I’ll just accept that. I could sit here and repeat why I think you have misunderstood a point here or may be wrong on another point there, but that is useless at this juncture.

After all of that I will say that when I used the term “truly country”, in retrospect, I shouldve used a term like “purely or only country”. I was referring to acts that blend mutliple styles, and I didnt meant to suggest that those acts werent memebers of the Country community, as I fully believe they are.

By: Jon

Jon — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:53:28 +0000

Kelly, your joke turned on the notion that Urban’s music “sounds nothing like country,” and agreeing that “he fits into the ‘contemporary country’ category” is, according to your own posts in this thread, little more than another way of saying the same thing. You’ve admitted to being confused about the whole idea of “contemporary country,” you’ve argued that the very idea of Urban playing any kind of country is a legitimate topic of discussion, you’ve suggested that the string band music that forms a large part of country’s earliest styles might not be “truly country,” and on and on. This kind of self-contradiction and incoherence (and, btw, belligerence) is pretty typical of the arguments advanced by those who resist the notion that country music does not, nor has it ever had, clear, simple, easily observed boundaries that can be defined solely by what the music sounds like. Those who advance (whether explicitly or implicitly) such arguments might want to consider learning a bit more and taking a more, ah, nuanced approach to the matter.

By: Kelly

Kelly — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:48:27 +0000

Again, I never said he “isnt” country, as I have agreed that he fits into the “contemporary country” category. Jon, I would suggest actually reading the comment before responding based upon your assertion of what a comment may have meant and instead, comment on what it actually said. My jocular first comment said the he doesnt sound “Country” it was obviously a joke. It was you that interrupted a discussion stemming from Urban’s own remarks about the mulit-faceted nature of Country music in order to again try and tell someone how severely misguided you think they are…again. My claim of Urban sounding very pop and not very country is quite evident by merely listening to his albums, therefore a need for further clarification is non-existent.

By: Jon

Jon — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:38:07 +0000

“Obviously, I am not saying that in no way is Urban country at all…”

So that was some other Kelly who made the opening comment in this thread?

I don’t need to present evidence to claim that Urban is a country artist; it’s everywhere. You’re the one who made a claim that begs support.

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:45:22 +0000

I have to agree w/stewman on this: KU is a very exciting endeavor to watch and I always feel perked up whenever he comes on live. I still can’t get over his ability to rip off fretboards so easily, but from the looks of all that firework, you KNOW he paid his dues to get to where he is. As for the country label, I do acknowledge that he isn’t entirely country by image or sound, but this is all just country music headquarter’s advertisement/strategy to stay on top of the big game. I too would perhaps sell my soul to the devil if I could have any of KU’s prowess. :P But of course, I’ve only been playing for 2 years, so that’s roughly 2 decades of work I gotta get going. Well…back to work *jamming*

By: Kelly

Kelly — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:11:36 +0000

“The idea that Urban isn’t a country musician is pretty ludicrous, and his remarks were thoroughly unexceptionable.”

Again, since you arent explaining yourself as clear as you seem to think, I am not sure if the above comment as directed at my previous comments or not. Regardless, you have provided little “evidence” to suggest that Urban is as “country” as you claim he is. At no point in this discussion has anyone, espeically me, suggested that “country music” isnt a broad term or that its easily definied. Simply because there have been a multitude of styles of country music from the genre’s origin doesnt cement Urban’s Country credentials anymore than it does George Strait’s or Jimmie Rodgers or anyone else who is without question, “Country”. Obviously, I am not saying that in no way is Urban country at all, I have only said that the difference between him and many pop artists are very small and at times, indistinguishable, which can be said for many “contempo-country” artists.

By: Jon

Jon — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:16:44 +0000

Well, yeah, Jim; contemporary performances of older styles don’t make those styles more contemporary. And while you may be certain that Urban’s music is mo’ different from Hank’s than Hank’s was from the string band styles of the 20s, I’m not – and while you’re probably more familiar with Urban’s music than I, I’m probably more familiar with the other two than you are. Call it a wash, if you like. The essential point is that the differences between those latter two are considerable, and that illustrates the fact that country music has been a dynamic, heterogenous field. Contrary to your reduction of my view, that doesn’t make it impossible to make firm determinations about what is or isn’t country music, but it should make one cautious about dishing up simplistic, snap judgments.

Your second post is mostly just bizarre. Country music “as a commercial format” came into existence in the marketplace of the 1920s, and did so as an amalgam of disparate styles and sounds tied together by a set of choices that had to do with many things besides how the music sounded. Eck Robertson, Jimmie Rodgers, Vernon Dalhart, Ernest V. Stoneman, Uncle Dave Macon and the Carter Family all sounded rilly different; all were country music pioneers, and all were making records before the even broader diversification of the 30s got under way.

The takeaway from any inquiry into the history of country music is that it’s a broad genre with room for many different sounds and styles, and social and commercial considerations can’t be removed from the picture. The idea that Urban isn’t a country musician is pretty ludicrous, and his remarks were thoroughly unexceptionable.

By: Jim Malec

Jim Malec — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:40:47 +0000

Country music started as a broad, heterogenous genre, constructed in large part as a marketing move, and has been that way ever since.

Well, in terms of a commercial format, yes. But that statement implies that the elements of the music (and in some cases the music itself) didn’t exist prior to the creation of the genre, and I don’t think that’s true.

Maybe it depends on where an individual chooses to recognize the beginning of country music. And I guess I’m of the opinion that the commercial format was built (even if in an altered state) on various traditions that we can trace back to (in part) the type of music CCD makes.

Of course, there are many streams that feed into what that genre was and what it would become. But even as broad as those may be, we can look at where and why those streams bleed into each other.