Brandon Rhyder – “Before I Knew Your Name”

Ben,

While I probably wouldn’t have noticed the lyrical deficiencies that you pointed out in this song, I completely understand why it would bother you, since you did notice them. For instance, Taylor Swift’s “Our Song” bothers me when she sings “talk real slow” instead of singing what I think should be “talk real low.” It’s a small thing, but it bugs me every time.

Then again, country music isn’t exactly famous for its perfect grammar or or sentence structure. I guess it’s part of the charm?

Good point about the conceptual problems. I certainly don’t think that country music is known for sloppy concepts (or sloppy writing). So, I was just being flippant about the grammar and sentence structure.

I remember hearing an interview in the mid-nineties with Clint Black. He talked about how writing with Skip Ewing was an intense process because Skip was quite obsessed with proper grammar and structure. Now, I’m not necessarily familiar enough with Ewing’s writing to know if this is true, but the comment stuck with me for some reason.

Thanks for stopping by, Brandon, I enjoy a lot of your music. I was just wondering a couple of things: Why don’t you usually respond to these kinds of things and does the fact that the review didn’t mention who the writers were have a marked impact on the substance of the review? Not to be confrontational, but it seems you’re suggesting that since Radney Foster cowrote the song that it’s above any perceived flaws.

Chris, he said positive or negative, so it’s not always necessary to talk someone into liking the song. We’ve seen what Taylor Swift’s activity on MySpace has done for her popularity. It seems like it’d be beneficial to at least interact in different mediums like this as it may be the only access some people or fans ever have with artists who rarely leave a small touring region.

fun interaction huh? Brady… why don’t i usually respond to these things? honestly. i’m usually just too busy with my family and the business to get to look and read and see some of these things… unless my mgr brings them to me. and Chris… i’m not trying to persuade anyone to like the song. the writer of this review, ben c, should have given you, the reader this information. ben should have found out who the writer or writers were before he wrote it. it’s pertinent information. again… positive or negative reaction doesn’t matter. isn’t it important to know who wrote anything and everything you’re going to review? i certainly believe it is. i’ll throw this out there for fun. if ben had known that radney foster was a co-writer of this song would his opinion have been different? impressive resume and all. hhhhhmmmmm… brhyder

Brandon: It is fun interaction. I dig the comments section on this site way above and beyond the message boards on most band or general sites. the diversity of opinion and subject matter makes The 9513 one of a kind. Understandably, most artist/band message boards contain fans that are of like mind and have very little to offer one another in the way of opposing views or new ideas. Thanks for coming on here and chatting a bit, it’s always cool to hear from the artist…

Hairandtoenails: I sometimes choose to breakdown the lyrics and storylines of a song in order to further appreciate it. I also often times just enjoy the song cuz when I hear it, I like what I hear, period. For me, this is one of those songs. It’s a song about love, remebering the past, etc…it isnt earth shattering and wildly original, nor does it need to be. I know it’s all subjective, but chances are, if you need to “care” so much about the “character” in a relatively easy song to understand, perhaps your issues with the song lie in other areas. Perhaps you dont like his voice, or the melody? If you are ok with the other aspects of a song and if the lyric is the only thing keeping you from liking the song, then wouldnt the lyric have to be just amazingly terrible?

ok, ok. if we started to really get into a grammar discussion, we would have a ton of examples. How many times have we seen “aint” or “gonna” listed in titles or written as a lryic?? Fine, we can count how many words are in a verse and discuss the possible meanings of words like “they”, “then” and “fire”, but PLEASE, lets not start talking about punctuation and grammar.

Kelly: you make some really good points. Maybe you’re right that my not caring about the characters is not really the issue. I confess that there are some songs that I love despite the fact that they have no character development and no story. You may well be right.

For the record, maybe it was Skip talking about Clint rather than Clint talking about Skip. I heard the interview over ten years ago. The only thing I can remember thinking is that I didn’t quite understand the comment because I don’t think the grammar is necessarily perfect in either of the songwriters’ songs. So, I was a bit confused. Sorry for talking about grammar, Kelly.:)

To agree with you, Kelly, I often just like a song because I like a song. It doesn’t always have to have great lyrical depth. Then again, if there are other things I don’t like about the song–the melody, the production, the vocals–I tend to pay much closer attention to the lyrics. Unless the lyrics are completely offensive to me, it’s not enough for me to consider a song a thumbs down. Hairandtoenails brought up “Another Try” as a song with no character development, therefore, lacking in lyrical depth. I guess I have to respectfully disagree. The culmination of the lyrics, sparing production, Yearwood’s excellent vocals and Turner’s performance really struck a chord with me. Though I’ve never had an experience like the one in the song, I feel some sadness when I hear it. Imagining being in such a place of regret just seems rather depressing to me. I didn’t think it was necessary to have an actual story for that song.

As far as the writers of songs are concerned, I actually try not to know who writes a song before I listen to it for review. I don’t want the writers of the song to influence my actual opinion of a song. Furthermore, I like Radney Foster quite a bit, but I don’t like every song that he’s ever written. I think I recall a conversation like this regarding Kenny Chesney’s “Don’t Blink.” Knowing who the songwriters on that song were did not help me to like the song any better. Moreover, I might find that I’m even more disappointed when a songwriter that I really respect writes a song that I don’t like or that I think is a step down from what they’ve shown they can do.

I completely agree, Kelly. When I buy an album for personal enjoyment, I often go to the songs of the writers I know first. I may not necessarily like those songs, but I do get excited about seeing a name that I recognize in the credits. I just don’t like to do that for singles that I’m going to review, though personal experience just about assures me that I really won’t be positively or negatively influenced in the end.

Brandon,

First off, welcome to the9513.com. It’s always a pleasure to interact with artists and it raises the level of intrigue from fans, which helps everybody.

I suppose that I should make it clear to readers who all of the songwriters on a song are just so they know.

That being said, knowing that Texas born, Nashville hit maker, singer-songwriter Radney Foster co-wrote this one wouldn’t have made a lick of difference in my review.

Knowing who wrote a song doesn’t change the content of the song, and therefore isn’t hugely pertinent information in regards to a critical review of it.

I am also not an apologist for Nashville hit makers, so an impressive resume wouldn’t make a difference either.

To answer a few points that have been raised.
sometimes lyrics can be confusing… if you try to read between the lines too much

One of the traits that distinguishes country music is the value that it has placed on clarity. Many genres of music don’t value clarity, and the lyrics to their songs, though enjoyable, are vague, completely open-ended, and (if taken at face value) confusing.

I’m of the opinion that in the large majority of cases, country music lyrics should be clear.

I wasn’t trying to “read between the lines too much” in my review, I was holding the lines as presented to a standard of clarity.

On a similar note
i sing those words every night on stage and not once have i felt confused by the lyrics or uninterested in what the song says. not one time.

You wrote the song, so I would assume that you’re intimately familiar with what the song is trying to express, and therefore you wouldn’t be confused by it.

All of us who didn’t write the song can only get what you’re trying to say by listening to what you’ve actually said.

To respond to Kelly
and I actually havent broken down the lyrics, cuz I feel as though I get the general feel for what he is trying to communicate. That doesnt mean I only enjoy it because I didnt pay attention, as you so arrogantly suggest, Ben.

I enjoyed the song as well, in fact I mention several things that I thought were really good in the song. What I had said, and what I believe you are referring to (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that “I can’t do that (give a thumbs up) for a song that is only good if the listener isn’t really paying attention to it.” (emphasis added)

You may have a different standard for a good song, and of course you have a right to that standard, but I can’t call a song that is so blatantly unconcerned with consistency, clarity, or focus a good one.

I got the “general feel” for what he is trying to communicate. Before he knew her he was complete, now, after subsequent rejection, he is broken/burned/incomplete.

But the writing didn’t give us the specifics.

Shouldn’t good writing inform us? Isn’t a bad thing when we have to say “yeah, sure this doesn’t make sense, but I get overall what he’s trying to say.”?

I’m a big believer in holding country music up to a high standard. In fact, in the comments to almost every one of my single reviews someone responds with something along the lines of “You are over analyzing this. It’s just a song, enjoy it. Why can’t you just listen to the song and take it for what it is?”

The answer is that I think that a large part of the country music world has relaxed their standards of songwriting, and I think that we, as critics, have the ultimate responsibility to treat music seriously, and to demand excellence.

(note: that’s not to say that eery song must be a masterwork. I thought that Cross Canadian Ragweed’s “Cry Lonely” is in a similiar vein as this song, but I gave it a thumbs up because despite the fact that it didn’t really have much to say, it didn’t overreach or trip over its own feet.)

So far, the only reasons that I have been given to change my mind about this one were that Radney Foster co-wrote it, that I shouldn’t pay close attention to the lyrics because it should be sufficient that I get a vague feel for the emotional mood the writer is trying to set, and that the song’s strengths (Rhyder’s voice, the cool musical feel, the nice melody, the cool bridge, etc etc) should be enough to win me over despite the timeline being established then disregarded, and the main metaphor presented then confused.

I wish Brandon Rhyder all the luck in the world, and I’m glad he stopped by, and the song has many strengths (that I made it a point to note), but I still have to stand by my thumbs down review on this one.

The first verse and the bridge are the two things that bother me with this song. Ben, you pointed out the deficiency in the first verse, that I will call the “When” factor. But in the bridge, we’re introduced to a whole new problem, the “Where” factor. Now instead of time traveling, he’s going to just travel around the country? The production and the performances on this song are great. It has a really nice vibe. But the lyric is all over the map (as well as all over the time line). I agree with Ben’s take.

I don’t get the bridge either. Is it supposed to be easier to turn back time in one particular Texas town than in another?

I like the music a lot, though. Production’s nice and crisp, too.

Just to be clear, I’d like to re-state that none of my critiques had anything to do with grammar and that I don’t think good grammar has much to do with good songwriting per se.

Opps.. I misspelled “string.” Good thing I’m not a songwriter. That could bring a very bad review! Brandon, you and Radney might try that and see what happens?

nonsense is typically unpredictable….

I’m all for unpredictability (and nonsense, really) but changing things up to make yourself look dumb isn’t something writers generally do on purpose. And in this song, where they spend a whole verse talking about an unexplained bad day and the long journey down the hall to her “lovin’ bed,” I don’t think the genius of switching “low” to “slow” and the furor it would cause came up.

But my favorite part of that song is still where he’s coping a feel as he drives down the road. “What? I’ve got one hand on your heart?”

You know for a song that has gotten a thumbs down review it sure is being talked about alot. This is one of my favorite Brandon Rhyder songs and it makes perfect sense to me. Its not the words or the grammar that should make sense its the music and it doesnt matter if it sounds dumb as hell on paper so long as it moves you. Its not a newspaper article its a song. I respect your opinion and i hope you’ll do the same for mine.

hey, brandon i dont f-ing care what they think about your groovy tunes.all i know is that your tune gets me by every day and i respect your music.even when im racing snomachines, or sitting back back drinking on the rocks. thank you

Wow, even Texas music has ’superfans’ – who knew?

I think its an excellent play on words and phrases. Words and phrases have multiple meanings. Ex. being burned is a negative at first, but your heart being on fire is a positive. He conveys two different meanings with basically the same terminology. All you really need to know is he way better off before he met that bitch!